Mandukya Karika Lecture 119 on 06-September-2023

Full Transcript (Not Corrected)

In our last class, we have been studying the sixth karika of the last chapter called Alatha Shanti Prakarana. In this fourth chapter, Gaudapada is summarizing what he had discussed in the first, second and third prakaranas. Not only that, in this particular chapter, he challenges us to rise intellectually above ordinary thinking because there are certain types of beliefs. If creation is real, so many people are there, and of course, all of us believe in creation. How do we know? Because if we do not believe in creation, then we would not be Jivas, we would be only Brahmans. But we take it for granted that there is a world, I am part of the world, I am interacting with the world, and the world is extremely limited. And in that limitation also, what I experience is more of unhappiness than happiness. If 1% is happiness, 99% is really unhappiness. Of course, there are people who do not think that way, but thinking doesn't make one's opinion, doesn't make any difference in the fact. For example, for eating, and we can apply this example to everything that we experience. Suppose we are eating something extremely tasty, as far as we are concerned, we have to, first of all, sweat a lot in acquiring the money, work very hard, probably for nearly 50 to 60 years, earn money. Is that all? Then we have to acquire things. Is that all? Then we have to cook. Is that all? There is a brief period. This is what we call practically in every Indian language, Kshanika Sukham, momentary happiness. So just the objects touch our sense organs. For example, in this, the food touches our tongue, and that's all. And then it will be a story of diminishing returns. That means first helping is tasty, second helping less tasty, third helping still less. Is that all? Fourth helping will create the opposite effect, terrible unhappiness. Apply it to every sense organ. And only when that object, under the right circumstances, comes into touch with our sense organ, then we get a little bit of happiness, which is only Kshanika. But to make this event happen, we have to work extremely hard for a long time, whole life probably. Then there are so many worries, whether what we earned may be taken away. Because tomorrow, what is happening now in some countries, inflation, 100%, 200%. If it rises, all our money becomes practically worthless money. There is no value. We cannot buy things at all. Worries are there. That is not the only worry. Body worry is there. Failing health worry is there. Then there is mental worry is there. If anything happens, not only to us, but to the people to whom we are attached. So much of unhappiness. Can we even say, after hearing this description, even 1% happiness is there, 99% unhappiness is there? No. Such is Mahamaya. People forget everything. There is a beautiful story illustrating this Kshanika Sukha and how man forgets. This, I think, may be a story from the Mahabharata. I will have to verify it. There was a traveller. He was travelling in a forest. And for some distance, he travelled very nicely, safely, happily. He was making progress. Suddenly, he found that a tiger spied on him and started chasing him. So the man had no option. He started running and the tiger was gaining. Finally, he saw that the tiger is about to jump upon him and tear him up. He saw what he thought was a well. And it happened to be a deep well, dry well. So without thinking, and we will also do under the same circumstances, just to escape, he jumped into it. And as he was falling, it was, as I said, it was a deep well. A small branch, sturdy branch was protruding out of the wall. And then he caught hold of it. And then he was hanging. He looked up. The tiger was sitting on the haunches. And this food will come out. And he looked down. At the bottom, a seven-hooded serpent was with all the hoods. It was swaying. And this fellow is going to come down. And then he saw two mice, rats, white and black, going round and round. Every time they come to that branch upon which he was hanging, they nibble a little bit and go away. Naturally, you can understand how terrible was the situation. But there was a huge honeycomb above him while he was falling. Some part of it was broken away. And there was some wild honey was there. And very slowly, drop by drop, it was falling, dripping. And this person saw it, forgot the whole lot, and stretched his mouth, his tongue, and succeeded in catching one drop of that honey. And while tasting, he forgot everything and said, Ah, this tastes like nectar. This is the condition of human beings. What was that tiger? Old age is chasing us. And what was that well? What was that forest? This samsara. What is that well? Our family, dried up family. And then he was looking down. What was that seven-hooded serpent? Death. Kala. Another name for snake is Kala. And it is in most of our languages. His time has come. Kalam achchindi. Kala bantu. So, shamayasiche, bhagpadeche. Like that, we go on speaking. And then, what were the rats? One was white, one was black. And what was that? Day and night. And they were nibbling away the ayurthaya. And then, what was that branch? This moment, the present moment. And then, due to his whatever fortune or misfortune, there was what is called purva janma krita. Fala was there. There was an ancient honeycomb. And it got broken because of his fall. And a little bit of, a few drops. And then, tasting that, he forgot the past, forgot the future, forgot samsara. And then, he said, not thinking what is going to happen to him, the purva karma fala will catch him up. The future birth is determined by what he had done in countless new innumerable past births. That is called Sanchita Karma. We will come to that very soon. So, that is the exact situation of each one of us. But, there are some wise people. What do they do? They understand the situation. And then, they take refuge in God. That is why, my favorite quotation was from the Kulasekara Alwar. Oh, mind, take refuge at the lotus feet of Bhagavan Krishna. Enter into that cage of his lotus feet. Because, when the time for death comes, who is going to remember God's name? अध्यईव विषतुमे मानसराजःमसः प्राणप्रयाणसमये कफ़वातपित्तैः कन्ठावरोधनविधव स्मर्णं कुतस्ते That is the Krishna. But, what is the cage? कृष्णात्वदीय पदपंकजः पिञ्जरस्तम् The safest refuge is the lotus feet of God. That was what Ramakrishna is telling. And that is our nature. What is our nature? Immortality is our nature. And what is this world? Is it really born? Some people say it is born. And then, those who believe that it is created, the world is born. जीव, we, each one of us is born. That means we are born of Bhagawan. Who is unborn? Who is immortal? Who is one? Who is infinite? Who is all-pervading? Has become the exact opposite. That is the meaning of birth. Birth means change. So, this कारण कार्य वादास, it is one of the finest expressions of a great Hindu intellect, a Rishi's intellect. We will dive into it a little bit later on. But here, what did we see? That people go on quarrelling, what is the creation is there, that they accept. World is there, and the samsara is there, that they accept. But what is their quarrel about? Some say it is born anew, without any cause. And the other party says that it can never happen. Whatever was non-existent, cannot be existent. And this is one party. Another party is, that is Nyaya and Vaiseshika, that no, no, if it is already existing, why should it, what do you mean by it has come out? It is already existent. There is no question of creation there. We will come to these points a little bit later on. Because Godapada wants to hone our intellects, sharpen our intellects. So he says, Godapada, we have seen it earlier, these opposing quarrelling parties, debating parties, they deny. You are wrong, you are wrong. So this fellow A says B is wrong, B says A is wrong. And thus both of them become wrong. And what remains, what we have been proposing, there has been no creation at all. This is what he wants to tell. Before we proceed, I want to give just this caution, that however much we may hear, that you are Amrutaputra, you are a chip of the old block called Brahman. So all these are absolute truths. But at our stage of our experience, our mind, our development, these are for, Bhagawan is Brahmati, this Jagat is Brahma. Brahma means real. That is our state. But we do recognize that even though we are saying it is real, we are saying it could be much better, far superior, not as we are experiencing it now. Just look, some of you might be reading the news practically many times every day. What do you see? Everywhere conflicts, wars, killing, so many things are happening, which is horrible. And day by day, they seem to be increasing. So, okay, let it happen. What has it got to do with me? No, because it impacts you also, it impacts everybody. Nobody is left completely free. So mind will be absolutely numb, benumbed. So that's why we have to be careful about it. If we want, then we must rise far beyond all these things. That is what is Gaudapada's main thrust is, that even though what I am proposing to you is very high, but that should be our highest goal. I understand where you are now, but slowly, slowly, by God's grace, you will have to progress. This is the gist of what he wants to do. For that, since we are human beings, not mere animals, we have been given a very highest type of intelligence, and that intelligence can definitely be honed. And that too, especially, the Gaudapada's teachings are more relevant to people who are more following the Gnanamargam than anything else. In this background, let us go, just recollecting the 6th Karika, which we discussed about it in our last class. अजातस्येव धर्मस्या जातिमिच्छन्ति वाधिनः अजाताह अम्रुतः धर्मः मर्त्यतां कथमेश्यति Very simple, actually. Only one particular word we have to understand, that is this धर्मा. धर्मा means जिवा. जिवा, अजाताह, is never born. But there are these disputants, these debaters, what do they do? They take it for granted, जिवात्मा is born. Who is that जिवात्मा? The वाधि, himself. The people who are debating, each one is thinking, I am a जिवा, I am a जिवा, and I am sharper in brain than you. My understanding is superior to yours. So let us argue. This is what is Gaudapada's judgment. Both of them do not have too much of a brain. Why? Because when there is no creation at all, what is all their quarrel about? So, अजातस्य एवधर्मस्य, धर्मस्य means जिवस्य, a जिवा, what is his nature? अजाताह, he is not born at all. जातिम् इच्छन्ति, so they confirm that जिवा is really born. What is the implication? If जिवा is born, he cannot live. Other जिवा's are also born. Other animals are also born. The entire world is born. Because nobody even imagines I am the only one who is born. The world means infinite number of things, सहस्र, सीर्ष, पुरुष, सहस्राक्ष, सहस्रपात, innumerable, uncountable living creatures, non-living things. Who is going to count them? So, they take it for granted the world is there, जिवात्मा is there, non-living is there and they want to prove. They are convinced. इच्छन्ति means what? They are convinced. अजातः, what is the nature of अजातः? अजातः means unborn. What is its nature? अम्रुतः, immortality. Because never born. Born means, birth means what? Change. अम्रुतः means what? Changeless. धर्मह, here धर्म means nature, is मर्त्यताम, that is mortality. That which is immortal, अम्रुतः, how कतम्, मर्त्यताम, एशति, how is it ever going to become? Your argument will be meaningful only if it happens. But अम्रुतः can never become मर्त्यम्. Immortal cannot become mortal but if there is something mortal, equally mortal also cannot become immortal. That is a marvellous piece of reasoning. And he continues. नभवते अमुरुतम् मर्त्यम् नमर्त्यम् अमुरुतम् तथा प्रकृतेह अन्यद्धा भावः न कथन्च भविष्यति This is the seventh कारिका. He is not telling anything new. He means Gaudapada. He is not telling anything new. What is he telling? Same thing that he had enumerated in the sixth one. He is putting it in different words. Not even different words. But he is emphasizing so that emphasis is meant for deeper impression within the readers or listeners or the audience. What is he telling? न भवते अमुरुतम् मर्त्यम् Same words. अमुरुतम् मर्त्यम् न भवते Immortal can never become mortal. And तथा in the same way न मर्त्यम् अमुरुतम् तथा Exactly in the same way that which is mortal तथा मर्त्यम् equally अमुरुतम् न भवते So we have to supply that word भवते First half there is a word भवते Second half it is not there This is called extension. अमुरुतम् it is the immortal Let me put it in a different way The immortal can never become mortal The mortal can never become immortal The infinite can never become finite The finite can never become infinite There is a mathematical equation I am not an expert in mathematics But I understand the concept Supposing there is a number 2 And then you go on taking smaller numbers And go on adding For example number 2 is there So you take 0.5 plus 0.5 And then it becomes 1 And then 1.1 It has become better 0.1 0.2 0.7 0.8 0.9 Go on adding 0.9 0.9 0.9 0.9 1.99999999 As it become to number So what is this example for You add infinity number of finite things Will it become infinite? No, it will never become. It is impossible. Why? That is not its nature. So the Poorna never becomes Apoorna. Apoorna never becomes Poorna. But what does the Upanishad say in the Shanti Mantra? Poornat Poornam Udachyate This so-called world which we perceive as finite, a huge number of things, nevertheless finite, limited by time, space and object. Kaala Parichcheda, Desha Parichcheda, Vastu Parichcheda. What does the Upanishad say? Poornat Poornam Udachyate This infinite has come from that infinite. And even though this infinite has come from that infinite, this so-called world, that infinite from which it came, that is Brahman, never becomes less. And it remains only infinite. Poornat Poornam Udachyate Poornam Eva Avasishyate Infinite minus infinite is infinite. Infinite plus infinite is infinite. In fact, you cannot apply any mathematical calculations to the infinite. Why? Why can't we apply? Because nobody is there to apply. Besides infinite, there is nobody else. If there is anybody else, suppose you think I am there, then infinite will not be infinite, it will be only finite. That is what Bhagavan is infinite. That is every, whether it is Purana, whether it is what we call Suktam, Purusha Suktam, Narayana Suktam, is trying to tell us. The very word Vishnu, Vyapakatvat Vishnu, is all pervading. Not one side pervading, not above pervading, below pervading, all pervading. Inside, outside, in between inside and outside. Everything is only He. We are saying through our mind, Vakthro Dhrute Upi Hridime Na Chabahati Kinchit But the meaning is not flashing in our minds at all. So having stated the same thing which we studied in the 6th Karika, Gaudapada is concluding how Prakrutehe Anyatha Bhavaha Na Kathanchit Bhavishyati Prakruti means one's nature. What is truly one's nature. Anyatha Bhavaha, that is deviating from one's own real nature. Kathanchit, it was not possible, it is not possible, it will not be possible. Bhavishyati, past, present and future. Simple example, just now I told you, infinite plus, infinite minus, infinite multiplied, infinite divided, it remains only infinite. But if you want a gold, pure golden object, will it ever become silver? In Telugu language, we have got a beautiful Elukathol Udichi Andhaka Udikina Naluppu Nalupega Ne Teluppu Gaadhu You bring, catch hold of a black rat and then take bagfuls of surf and going on beating it with the surf. Will the skin ever become white? Impossible. That is what he wants to tell. Prakruti Anyatha Bhavaha, gold will remain gold, silver will remain silver, sweet will remain sweet and heat will remain heat. It is not going to change. This word Prakruti is going to illustrate further. So one's nature is not going to change. And that is what he wants to say, explain in the 8th Karika. Swabhavena Amrutaha Yasya Dharmogachyate Martyatham Krutakena Amrutasthasya Kathamsthasyate Nischala This is a very beautiful Karika. Swabhavena, by nature. One is immortal. Yasya Bhavaha Amrutaha He, whose nature is immortality. Dharma, who is that? Every one of us. But when we say Amruta, we should not use the word every one of us. Because there is no every one of us. Only one. Not even one. Dharmaha Martyatham Gachyate Is it ever possible? Such a thing. Is it possible even to conceive, much less to believe that he whose nature is immortality can ever become a Dharma, a Jivatma, a limited being? By definition, Jivatma means a limited being. Krutakena Amrutasthasya Kathamsthasyate Nischalaha Supposing. This is called Abhyopeta Vada. You know, many times when we are debating, for the sake of argument, I say, okay, temporarily, for the sake of argument, I accept your view. This is called Abhyopeta Vada. Temporarily, I accept. Supposing. Then I want to point out, if I accept your view, these are the loopholes, these are the fallacies, these are the problems that will be arising. Supposing, Bhagawan has become Jivatma, and then the Jivatma, it realizes, I came from Bhagawan. Actually, I was born of Bhagawan, but there is a way for me to go back to Bhagawan. What is the way? That's what we call spiritual practice, Sadhana. I will do Sadhana. And for that Sadhana, Ramakrishna says, infinite number of pathways, because one can attain infinity from any direction, in any way, every path, every single path takes one only to the infinite, because every path is leading only to the infinite. Supposing, I, the Jiva, practice spiritual discipline in this life, or in many lives, slowly I go on progressing, and finally one day, you can say, by the grace of God, or by my own effort, I realize, Aham Brahmasmi. What did I attain? Brahmatma. I became Brahman. What was before? What was I before? Where from have I come? From Brahma. I have come from Brahma. I become Jivatma. I do Sadhana, and I go back, and I become Brahman again. Okay? Then what is the problem? Where is the loophole? Loophole is, you yourself are saying, once I came down from Brahman, and now you are saying, I have gone back to Brahman. Once I realize, I came from Brahman, before you came down, what were you? Brahman. Now after Sadhana, what are you? Brahman. Now, what is the guarantee? Second time you won't come down. So, you will come down again, and then you do Sadhana again. You go back. There is a, when we were children, there was a mathematical calculation. There was a well. It is 12 feet deep, and a small creature had fallen there. Say, an earthworm, and it wants to climb up. So, per hour, it can climb one inch, and then, after that, it will fall down, and then again it comes to one inch, and then it will fall down. Having given this statement, the students are asked, how much time will it take for that earthworm to reach the ground? Is it ever possible? Never possible. So, it is the same if Brahman can fall down. What is the nature of Brahman? Falling down. What was the nature of Brahman? Immortality. When it fell down, it changed. What has changed? Immortality became mortality. Infinite became finite. So, how can it be that the immortal can never become mortal? And if you still persist, that is what happened. I became mortal, and then I did sadhana, I reached Brahman, I became immortal, suppose somebody confronts, if you have really become, then the nature of Brahman must be mortal only. He says, no, no, no, I did not put it properly, I thought I had fallen. All right. So, the opponent concludes, all right, all right, I am satisfied with your second statement. What prevents you from thinking second time that you have fallen down again? So, that means what? For eternity, you will be falling down. Samsara will always be there. Just imagine. This is the type of logic Gaudapada is presenting here. Svabhavena yasya svabhavah amrutah. By nature, that which is immortal. Martyatam, that dharma. Here dharma means that nature. Katham, martyatam, gacchati. How does it become mortal? Not possible. That is what he means. Supposing you think like that, what is the problem? Krutakena, sadhanena. By some activity. Amrutah, tasya. Suppose you attain to your original nature. Amrutabhava. Then what guarantee is there that amrutabhava nischalah sthasyati iti katham bhavayitum sakhyam? How is it possible? That means it is not possible. How can he who believes that a naturally immortal entity becomes mortal, maintain that the immortal after passing through birth retains its changeless nature? So, first of all Gaudapada said that all the disputants they reveal the fallacy of the other. A reveals the defects of the B. B reveals the defects of the C. C reveals the defects of the D. D reveals the defects of A. So, that means it is full of fallacies. So, they destroy each other. Then so long as you think there is a creation it is full of fallacies. Therefore, the only truth is there is no creation at all. That is what Gaudapada wants to say. Is it true? It is absolutely true. But we think we are falling into this particular karika that I have come from God. Bhagavan had created me and He wants me to play a little bit of drama here. And then after many births I attain to human body. And then after so many again births as a human body I progress from the Shudra to the Vaishya, to the Kshatriya, to the Brahmana. That means from Tamoguna, Rajoguna to Satvaguna. And then I become one day Uttishthata, Jagrata, Prapyavara, Nibodhata. I get the desire No, no, this is enough of samsara. I want to become I want to go to God and I want to be with Him forever, permanently. Never coming back. So, He goes back. And then first time, how did you come down? Same thing can happen second time. Infinite number of times. So therefore, there is a fallacy there. So, our Vedas do accept a theory of creation. Is it because it is true? No. It is because you can't tell to a madcap you are a madcap. In fact, you have to tell to a madcap everybody else is mad you alone are a sane person. How does it help? That person will have complete faith in the teacher who says you and I we are the only non-mad persons in this whole world. And he becomes friends and he trusts him. And slowly, through a methodical means the psychiatrist he guides him so that slowly, slowly, slowly he brings out. So, you were telling that your name was Ramu. Yes, yes. But now you are telling it is Shamu. Oh, I must have committed a mistake. Slowly, he will bring up and then make him understand. It is not a miraculous process. What the psychiatrist does really is he only makes the madcap understand that first of all that madness is his own thinking. Secondly, he was not always mad because if he was by nature mad nobody can make him good. In between it has come because of some experience, some event and especially painful event and he cannot resolve the problem. So, promptly he starts becoming mad means forgetting, rising above that thought. He becomes a yogi. So, mad yogi. That is what I am talking about temporary escapism. By thinking I am not that suffering person I am somebody else. I am okay. Like that. But problem will not go away. If it is a real problem it will be real only. So, slowly the person makes the patient think for himself accept himself remember himself and then a time will come that he says, Oh! I was only deeply thinking that I am so and so. No, no. The truth is I am what I am. This is called recovery. So, same methodology. I was Brahman. I forgot I was Brahman. I thought I am Jeeva. So, I became mad. The Bhava Vaidya Guru he comes and he convinces me through Shravana, Manana and Nidhidhyasana and he makes me think that I was never really mad. I was only Brahman. So, the Vedas accept because we believe there is a creation. I am a Jeeva Atma. I am born of my parents. My parents are born. If you want there are photographs. Evidence is there and hospital records are there. How do you say I am born, etc. So, it is there. Then why do I turn to God? Because of suffering. Anybody will turn towards God not by being happy but being unhappy, suffering, etc. Pandavas realized it. Especially Kunti realized it. She praised Krishna that only when we were suffering we were remembering you and so you were with us. But the moment there is no suffering we will not remember you and you will not be with us. What a marvelous piece of psychology. So, Godfather says that the suffering that you are creating if it is real, it will never go. Take note. If the world is real, if my birthday is real, I can never ever become Brahman. If both happiness and unhappiness are real, I can never get out of it. But if they are seeming, especially I am thinking that there is. Just like our dream we think someone is troubling me. If I think like that, yes, it is possible for me to get out of it. So, there is no Jeeva. And if I say there is no Jeeva, the Jeeva is only in the context of the world. The idea of Jeeva goes along with the idea of the world. The idea of the world goes along with the concept of the Jeeva. I will expand it with a few examples. If a person says I am your mother, a person can never be a mother without a child. And if the child says I am your child, a child can never be without a mother. Child and mother, husband and wife, good and evil, birth and death, happiness and unhappiness, Jeeva and God, they always go together. This is what he wants. If there is no such thing as Jeeva, there is no world. If there is no world, there is no such thing called Jeeva. But how do we... because everyday we are experiencing it. But what are we experiencing really is nothing but Brahman. How do we understand? Another example I will give you. That example is suppose somebody whom you know very well comes in a disguise. Can you recognize? Not immediately. And you may get frightened also. But after some time, a disguise is removed. What is the point? Point is the person has not become some other person. A disguise only disguised the person for a short period of time because when a person is disguised, that disguise is only a temporary something. And nobody can keep something temporary. Why? Because it is called temporary. If it is permanent, it is permanent. If it is temporary, it is temporary. Disguise is temporary. So because it is temporary, it will be temporary only. So the infinite can never become finite. Finite can never become infinite. This is how Gaudapada wants to make us understand if any one of us are thinking that God created. What is the first problem? Creation means change. Creation means change. So the curds, one of the examples, the milk becomes curds and milk becomes destroyed and curds becomes reality. The inside material will be the same but so many things have changed. The seed becomes a plant. Before the seed becomes a plant, the seed gets destroyed and then only the plant will come. And the curds can never go back to the state of the milk. But fortunately, that is the remedy. If you want to get further curds, what do you do? You take milk, eat it, and curds can create only curds. So the plant cannot go back into the seed state. Yes, it will go back. When it grows up, it creates further seeds and it will continue. So Brahman cannot become Jeeva. Jeeva cannot become Brahman. Brahman cannot be Karanam. Karanam cannot become Karyam. Karyam also cannot come out of Karanam. That is what Advaita Vedanta wants to convey to us. For now, we see the world. We think it is real. There must be a cause. I will give a small illustration because these are very, very finer points. Suppose you are dreaming. In the dream, somebody comes and he is troubling you. He is about to kill you. And you are asking, Why do you want to kill me? What is the cause? Did I do anything to you? This is the first time we are meeting. You tell me, convince me why you want to kill me. And then the dream is broken. Once the dream is broken, would you go on telling, Why did that fellow come to kill me? What did I do? Would you go on asking? Because you understand, the whole dream is only imagination. Imagination is not reality. And therefore you will not question. Similarly, after realisation, one does not question. That is a very beautiful thought we have to understand. Akara, Nirguna, Nishkriya, Nirvisesha, Brahman can never become the Karanam of the world. Impossible. As I said, infinite can never become finite. It is not possible. Neither for the infinite, finite, it can never become infinite. What does it mean? Brahman can never become Jeeva. And if at all there is a Jeeva, Jeeva also can never become Brahman. And if there are both Jeeva and Brahman, then it is not Advaitam. It is only Dwaitam. It is not possible. So Paramatma has not become the Jagat. And the Jagat also cannot become Paramatma. Then, what is all this about? Well, we are thinking, like a mad fellow who says, I am Napoleon. He is thinking, because of some wrong habit, that I am so and so. I am not what I am, but I am somebody else. Because it is a false thinking. Falsity will always go away. Temporary something will always go away. Very interesting argument, you know. Somebody becomes permanently mad, then he is not called mad. Permanently right person. Madness is always for a temporary something only. So, just to say, if we are created, we become Jeevas, then we can never become Brahman. Why? If we become Brahman, then same thing will happen. Again I will fall back. And again I will try. Any number of times. That is not desirable at all. The only thing is, now we are thinking. Just one more illustration, I will do for today's class. Supposing you are seeing a snake, in semi-darkness. And then, somebody brings light. Now you see a rope. Will there be anybody, who will be arguing, at what exact moment, the snake is born? And how much it has grown? And how much poison it contains? Will you be discussing about it? No. But only when light is brought up. Similarly, all our efforts of studying Mandukya Karika, is just for that, to bring the light. Once we get the light, by whatever means, all these arguments become totally irrelevant. But until that time, they are very relevant. I will stop here. And there are beautiful things going to come up, which we will talk about in our next class. Om Jananim Sharadaam Deivim Ramakrishnam Jagat Gurum Pada Padme Dayo Sarithwa Pranamaami Mohur Mohuh May Ramakrishna, Holy Mother, and Swami Vivekananda, bless us all with Bhakti. Ramakrishna.