Mandukya Karika Lecture 119 on 06-September-2023

Full Transcript (corrected )

In our last class, we have been studying the sixth Kārikā of the last chapter called Alāta-shānti Prakarana. In this fourth chapter, Gaudapāda is summarising what he had discussed in the first, second and third prakaranas. Not only that, in this particular chapter, he challenges us to rise intellectually above ordinary thinking. Because there are certain types of beliefs.

If creation is real (so many people are there), and of course, all of us believe in creation. How do we know? Because if we do not believe in creation, then we would not be Jīvās, we would be Brahman. But we take it for granted that there is a world, I am part of the world, I am interacting with the world, and the world is extremely limited.

And in that limitation also, what I experience is more of unhappiness than happiness. If 1% is happiness, 99% is really unhappiness. Of course, there are people who do not think that way, but thinking doesn’t make, one's opinion doesn't make any difference to the fact.

For example, for eating, and we can apply this example to everything that we experience. Suppose we are eating something extremely tasty (as far as we are concerned). We have to, first of all, sweat a lot in acquiring the money. Work very hard, probably for nearly 50 to 60 years, earn money. Is that all? Then we have to acquire things. Is that all? Then we have to cook. Is that all? There is a brief period, this is what we call practically in every Indian language, Kshanika Sukham, momentary happiness. So just the objects touch our sense organs. For example, in this, the food touches our tongue, and that's all. And then it will be a story of diminishing returns.

That means the first helping is tasty, second helping less tasty, third helping still less. Is that all? Fourth helping will create the opposite effect, terrible unhappiness. Apply it to every sense organ. And only when that object, under the right circumstances, comes into touch with our sense organ, then we get a little bit of happiness, which is only Kshanika. But to make this event happen, we have to work extremely hard for a long time, whole life probably.

( 05:39 mins )

Then there are so many worries, whether what we earned may be taken away. Because tomorrow… what is happening now in some countries - inflation, 100%, 200%. If it rises, all our money becomes practically worthless money. There is no value. We cannot buy things at all. Worries are there. That is not the only worry. Body worry is there. Failing health worry is there. Then there is mental worry. If anything happens, not only to us, but to the people to whom we are attached… So much of unhappiness. Can we even say, after hearing this description, that 1% happiness is there, 99% unhappiness is there? No. Such is Mahāmāyā. People forget everything.

There is a beautiful story illustrating this Kshanika Sukha and how man forgets. This, I think, may be a story from the Mahābhārata. I will have to verify it. There was a traveller. He was travelling in a forest. And for some distance, he travelled very nicely, safely, happily. He was making progress. Suddenly, he found that a tiger spied on him and started chasing him. So the man had no option. He started running and the tiger was gaining. Finally, he saw that the tiger was about to jump upon him and tear him up. He saw what he thought was a well. And it happened to be a deep well, dry well.

So without thinking (and we will also do the same, under the same circumstances), just to escape, he jumped into it. And as he was falling (it was, as I said, it was a deep well), a small branch, sturdy branch was protruding out of the wall. And then he caught hold of it, and he was hanging. He looked up. The tiger was sitting on the haunches - when this food will come out. And he looked down. At the bottom, a seven-hooded serpent was (with all the hoods), swaying - when this fellow is going to come down. And then he saw two mice, rats, white and black, going round and round. Every time they come to that branch upon which he was hanging, they nibble a little bit and go away. Naturally, you can understand how terrible was the situation.

But there was a huge honeycomb above him. While he was falling, some part of it was broken away. And some wild honey was there. And very slowly, drop by drop, it was falling, dripping. And this person saw it, forgot the whole lot, and stretched his mouth, his tongue, and succeeded in catching one drop of that honey. And while tasting, he forgot everything and said, ‘Ah, this tastes like Amṛta, nectar’. This is the condition of human beings.

( 09:50 mins )

• What was that tiger? Old age is chasing us.
• What was that forest? This samsāra.
• What is that well? Our family, dried up family.
• And then he was looking down. What was that seven-hooded serpent? Death. Kāla. Another name for snake is Kāla. And it is in most of our languages. His time has come. Kālam achhindi, Kāla bantu, So, samay esaechaji, dāk-porechhe, Like that, we go on speaking.
• And then, what were the rats? One was white, one was black. And what was that? Day and night. And they were nibbling away the Āyurdāya
• And then, what was that branch? This moment, the present moment.
• And then, due to his whatever fortune or misfortune, there was what is called purva janma krita phala was there. There was an ancient honeycomb. And it got broken because of his fall. And a little bit of, a few drops… And then, tasting that, he forgot the past, forgot the future, forgot samsāra.

And then, he said, not thinking what is going to happen to him, the purva karma phala will catch him up. The future birth is determined by what he had done in countless new innumerable past births. That is called Sanchita Karma. We will come to that very soon.

So, that is the exact situation of each one of us. But, there are some wise people. What do they do? They understand the situation. And then, they take refuge in God. That is why, my favorite quotation was from Kulasekara Ālwar. ‘Oh, mind, take refuge at the lotus feet of Bhagavan Krishna. Enter into that cage of His lotus feet. Because, when the time for death comes, who is going to remember God's name?’

अद्येव विशतु मे मानस राजहंसः प्राण प्रयाणसमये कफ़वातपित्तैः कण्ठावरोधनविधौ स्मर्णं कुतस्ते ( dyeva viṣatu me mānasa rājahamsaha praṇa prayāṇasamaya kaphavātapittaihe kaṇthāvarodhanavidhau smarṇam kutaste ) - That is Krishna.

But, what is the cage? कृष्ण त्वदीय पदपंकजः पिञ्जरस्तम् ( Krishna tvadīya padapankaja piñjarastam ) - The safest refuge is the lotus feet of God.

That was what Sri Rāmakrishna is telling. And that is our nature.

What is our nature? Immortality is our nature.

And what is this world? Is it really born? Some people say it is born. And then, those who believe that it is created, the world is born. Jīvā, we, each one of us is born. That means we are born of Bhagawān, Who is Unborn, Who is Immortal, Who is One, Who is Infinite, Who is All-pervading, has become the exact opposite. That is the meaning of birth. Birth means change.

So, this Kāraṇ-Kārya vādās, it is one of the finest expressions of a great Hindu intellect, a Rishi's intellect. We will dive into it a little bit later on. But here, what did we see? That people go on quarrelling, what is the… Creation is there - that they accept. World is there, and the samsāra is there - that they accept. But what is their quarrel about?

Some say it is born anew, without any cause. And the other party says that it can never happen. Whatever was non-existent, cannot be existent. And this is one party. Another party believes, that is Nyāya and Vaiseshika, that no, no, if it is already existing, why should it… what do you mean by it has come out? It is already existent. There is no question of creation there. We will come to these points a little bit later on.

( 15:18 mins )

Because Gaudapāda wants to hone our intellects, sharpen our intellects. So he says, Gaudapāda, we have seen it earlier, these opposing quarrelling parties, debating parties, they deny - ‘You are wrong, you are wrong’ . So this fellow A says B is wrong, B says A is wrong. And thus both of them become wrong. And what remains, what we have been proposing, there has been no creation at all. This is what he wants to tell.

Before we proceed, I want to give just this caution, that however much we may hear, that you are Amritaputra, you are a chip of the old block called Brahman. So all these are absolute truths. But at our stage of our experience, our mind, our development, these are far - Bhagawan is Bhrānti, this Jagat is Brahma. Brahma means real. That is our state. But we do recognize that even though we are saying it is real, we are saying it could be much better, far superior, not as we are experiencing it now.

Just look, some of you might be reading the news practically many times every day. What do you see? Everywhere conflicts, wars, killing, so many things are happening, which is horrible. And day by day, they seem to be increasing. So, okay, let it happen. What has it got to do with me? No! Because it impacts you also, it impacts everybody. Nobody is left completely free. So mind will be absolutely numb, benumbed. So that's why we have to be careful about it. If we want, then we must rise far beyond all these things.

That is what Gaudapāda’s main thrust is, that even though what I am proposing to you is very high, but that should be our highest goal. I understand where you are now, but slowly, slowly, by God's grace, you will have to progress. This is the gist of what he wants to do. For that, since we are human beings, not mere animals, we have been given a very highest type of intelligence, and that intelligence can definitely be honed. And that too, especially, Gaudapāda’s teachings, are more relevant to people who are following the Jnāna-mārgam more than anything else.

With this background, let us go, just recollecting the 6th Karika, which we discussed about it in our last class.

अजातस्यैव धर्मस्य जातिमिच्छन्ति वादिनः ।

अजातो ह्यमृतो धर्मो मर्त्यतां कथमेष्यति ॥ ६ ॥

ajātasyaiva dharmasya jātimicchanti vādinaḥ |

ajāto hyamṛto dharmo martyatāṃ kathameṣyati || 6 ||

Very simple, actually. Only one particular word we have to understand, that is this Dharma. Dharma means Jīvā.

Jīvā ajātaha - is never born. But there are these disputants, these debaters, what do they do? They take it for granted, Jīvātmā is born. Who is that Jīvātmā? The vādi, himself, The people who are debating. Each one is thinking, I am a Jīvā, I am a Jīvā, and I am sharper in brain than you. My understanding is superior to yours. So let us argue. This is what is Gaudapāda’s judgment. Both of them do not have too much of a brain. Why? Because when there is no creation at all, what is all their quarrel about?

So, ajātasyaiva dharmasya - dharmasya - means Jīvasya, a Jīvā, what is his nature? Ajātaha - he is not born at all.

Jātimicchanti - so they confirm that Jīvā is really born. What is the implication? If Jīvā is born, he cannot live. Other Jīvā’s are also born. Other animals are also born. The entire world is born. Because nobody even imagines I am the only one who is born.

( 20:14 mins )

The world means infinite number of things, सहस्रशीर्षा पुरुषः सहस्राक्षः सहस्रपात् (sahasraśīrṣā puruṣaḥ sahasrākṣaḥ sahasrapāt) - innumerable, uncountable living creatures, non-living things. Who is going to count them? So, they take it for granted the world is there, Jīvātmā is there, non-living is there and they want to prove. They are convinced.

Icchanti means what? They are convinced.

Ajātaha - what is the nature of Ajātaha? Ajātaha means unborn. What is its nature?

Amṛtaha - immortality. Because never born. Born means, birth means what? Change. Amṛtaha means what - Changeless. Dharmaha, here Dharmaha means nature, is martyatāṃ - that is mortality.

That which is immortal, Amṛtaha, how katham martyatāṃ eṣyati - how is it ever going to become?

Your argument will be meaningful only if it happens. But Amṛtaha can never become martyam. Immortal cannot become mortal but if there is something mortal… equally mortal also cannot become immortal. That is a marvellous piece of reasoning. And he continues.

न भवत्यमृतं मर्त्यं न मर्त्यममृतं तथा ।

प्रकृतेरन्यथाभावो न कथंचिद्भविष्यति ॥ ७ ॥

na bhavatyamṛtaṃ martyaṃ na martyamamṛtaṃ tathā |

prakṛteranyathābhāvo na kathaṃcidbhaviṣyati || 7 ||

This is the seventh Kārikā. He is not telling anything new. He means Gaudapāda, he is not telling anything new. What is he telling? Same thing that he had enumerated in the sixth one. He is putting it in different words. Not even different words. But he is emphasizing so that… Emphasis is meant for deeper impression within the readers, or listeners, or the audience.

What is he telling? Na bhavatyamṛtaṃ martyaṃ - Same words. amṛtaṃ martyaṃ na bhavate - Immortal can never become mortal.

And Tathā - in the same way - na martyamamṛtaṃ tathā - Exactly in the same way that which is mortal, tathā martyaṃ equally amṛtaṃ na bhavati. So we have to supply that word bhavati. (First half there is a word bhavati, second half it is not there. This is called extension). Amṛtaṃ - it is the immortal.

Let me put it in a different way The immortal can never become mortal. The mortal can never become immortal. The infinite can never become finite. The finite can never become infinite.

There is a mathematical equation, I am not an expert in mathematics, But I understand the concept. Supposing there is a number, 2, And then you go on taking smaller numbers And go on adding For example number 2 is there. So you take 0.5 plus 0.5 And then it becomes 1. And then 1.1 It has become better 1.1, 1.2, 1.7, 1.8, 1.9 Go on adding 0.9, 0.9, 0.9, 0.9 it becomes 1.99999999. Has it become the number 2?

So what is this example for? You add infinite number of finite things. Will it become infinite? No, it will never become. It is impossible. Why? That is not its nature. So the Pūrna never becomes Apūrna. Apūrna never becomes Pūrna. But what does the Upanishad say in the Shānti Mantra? Pūrnāt pūrnamudachyate

This so-called world which we perceive as finite, a huge number of things, nevertheless finite, limited by time, space and object - Kāla Parichcheda, Desha Parichcheda,Vastu Parichcheda.

( 25:04 mins )

What does the Upanishad say? Pūrnāt pūrnamudachyate This Infinite has come from that Infinite. And even though this Infinite has come from that Infinite, this so-called world, that Infinite from which it came, that is Brahman, never becomes less. And it remains only Infinite. Pūrnāt pūrnamudachyate pūrnamevāvashishyate - Infinite minus Infinite is infinite. Infinite plus Infinite is Infinite.

In fact, you cannot apply any mathematical calculations to the Infinite. Why? Why can't we apply? Because nobody is there to apply. Besides Infinite, there is nobody else. If there is anybody else, suppose you think I am there, then Infinite will not be Infinite, it will be only finite. That is what - Bhagavān is Infinite. That is what every, whether it is Puraṅa, whether it is what we call Sūktam, Purusha Sūktam, Nārāyana Sūktam, is trying to tell us.

The very word Vishnu, Vyapakatvat Vishnu, is all pervading. Not one side pervading, not above pervading, below pervading. All pervading! Inside, outside, in between, inside and outside. Everything is only He. We are saying through our mind, Vaktrod-dhritopi hridi me, na cha bhāti kinchit (Om Hrim Ritam song composed by Swami Vivekananda) - But the meaning is not flashing in our minds at all.

So, having stated the same thing which we studied in the 6th Kārikā, Gaudapāda is concluding. How? Prakṛteranyathābhāvo na kathaṃcidbhaviṣyati .

Prakṛti - means one's nature. What is truly one's nature.

Anyatha bhāvaha - that is deviating from one's own real nature.

Kathaṃcid - it was not possible, it is not possible, it will not be possible.

Bhaviṣyati - past, present and future.

Simple example, just now I told you, Infinite plus, Infinite minus, Infinite multiplied, Infinite divided, it remains only Infinite. But if you want a gold, pure golden object, will it ever become silver? In Telugu language, we have got a beautiful saying in Telugu. ఎలుక తోలు తెచ్చి ఏడాది ఉతికినా నలుపు నలుపే గాని తెలుపు కాదు - You bring, catch hold of a black rat and then take bagfuls of surf and go on beating it with the surf for one year. Will the skin ever become white? Impossible. That is what he wants to tell.

Prakṛteranyathābhāvaha - gold will remain gold, silver will remain silver, sweet will remain sweet and heat will remain heat. It is not going to change. This word Prakṛti he is going to illustrate further. So one's nature is not going to change. And that is what he wants to say, explain in the 8th Kārikā.

स्वभावेनामृतो यस्य धर्मो गच्छति मर्त्यताम् ।

कृतकेनामृतस् तस्य कथंस्थास्यति निश्चलः ॥ ८ ॥

svabhāvenāmṛto yasya dharmo gacchati martyatām |

kṛtakenāmṛtas tasya kathaṃsthāsyati niścalaḥ || 8 ||

This is a very beautiful Kārikā. Svabhāvena - by nature. One is immortal. Yasya Bhāvaha amṛtaha - He, whose nature is immortality.

Dharma, who is that? Every one of us. But when we say amṛta, we should not use the word - every one of us. Because there is no every one of us. Only one. Not even one.

Dharmaha martyatām gacchati - Is it ever possible, such a thing? Is it possible even to conceive, much less to believe, that he whose nature is immortality can ever become a Dharma, a Jīvātmā, a limited being? By definition, Jīvātmā means a limited being.

Kṛtakenāmṛtas tasya kathaṃsthāsyati niścalaḥ - Supposing, this is called Abhya-upeta Vāda. You know, many times when we are debating, for the sake of argument, I say, okay, temporarily, for the sake of argument, I accept your view. This is called Abhya-upeta Vāda. Temporarily, I accept supposing. Then I want to point out, if I accept your view, these are the loopholes, these are the fallacies, these are the problems that will be arising.

( 30:36 mins )

Supposing, Bhagawān has become Jīvātmā, and then the Jīvātmā, it realizes, I came from Bhagawān. Actually, I was born of Bhagawān, but there is a way for me to go back to Bhagawān. What is the way? That's what we call spiritual practice, Sādhana. I will do Sādhana.

And for that Sādhana, Sri Rāmakrishna says, যত মত তত পথ (joto mot, toto poth), infinite number of pathways, because one can attain infinity from any direction, in any way. Every path, every single path, takes one only to the Infinite, because every path is leading only to the Infinite.

Supposing, I, the Jīvā, practice spiritual discipline in this life, or in many lives, slowly I go on progressing, and finally one day, you can say, by the grace of God, or by my own effort, I realize, Aham Brahmāsmi. What did I attain? Brahmatvam. I became Brahman. What was before? What was I before? Where from have I come? From Brahma. I have come from Brahma. I become Jīvātmā. I do Sādhana, and I go back, and I become Brahman again.

Okay, then what is the problem? Where is the loophole? Loophole is, you yourself are saying, once I came down from Brahman, and now you are saying, I have gone back to Brahman. Once I realize, I came from Brahman… Before you came down, what were you? Brahman. Now after Sādhana, what are you? Brahman. Now, what is the guarantee, second time you won't come down? So, you will come down again, and then you do Sādhana again.You go back.

There is a… when we were children, there was a mathematical calculation. There was a well. It is 12 feet deep, and a small creature had fallen there. Say, an earthworm, and it wants to climb up. So, per hour, it can climb one inch, and then, after that, it will fall down, and then again it comes up one inch, and then it will fall down. Having given this statement, the students are asked, how much time will it take for that earthworm to reach the ground? Is it ever possible? Never possible.

So, it is the same if Brahman can fall down. What is the nature of Brahman? Falling down. What was the nature of Brahman? Immortality. When it fell down, it changed. What has changed? Immortality became mortality. Infinite became finite. So, how can it be that the immortal can ever become mortal? And if you still persist, that is what happened. I became mortal, and then I did Sādhana, I reached Brahman, I became immortal.

Suppose somebody confronts, if you have really become, then the nature of Brahman must be mortal only. He says, ‘No, no, no, I did not put it properly, I thought I had fallen.’’ All right. So, the opponent concludes, ‘All right, all right, I am satisfied with your second statement. What prevents you from thinking second time that you have fallen down again?’ So, that means what? For eternity, you will be falling down. Samsāra will always be there. Just imagine.

( 35:06 mins )

This is the type of logic Gaudapāda is presenting here. Svabhāven yasya svabhāvaha amṛta - By nature, that which is immortal. Martyatam, that dharma. (Here dharma - means that nature).

Katham martyatām gacchati - How does it become mortal? Not possible. That is what he means.

Supposing you think like that, what is the problem? Kṛtakenā sādhanena - By some activity.

Amṛta tasya - Suppose you attain to your original nature - amṛtabhāva.

Then what guarantee is there that amṛtabhāva niścalaḥ sthāsyati iti katham bhavayitum sakhyam - How is it possible? That means it is not possible. How can he who believes that a naturally immortal entity becomes mortal, maintain that the immortal after passing through birth retains its changeless nature?

So, first of all Gaudapāda said that all the disputants, they reveal the fallacy of the other. A reveals the defects of B. B reveals the defects of C. C reveals the defects of D. D reveals the defects of A. So, that means it is full of fallacies. So, they destroy each other.

Then, so long as you think there is a creation, it is full of fallacies. Therefore, the only truth is there is no creation at all. That is what Gaudapāda wants to say.

Is it true? It is absolutely true. But we think we are falling into this particular Kārikā that I have come from God. Bhagawān had created me and He wants me to play a little bit of drama here. And then after many births I attain to a human body. And then after so many births as a human body I progress from the Shudra to the Vaishya, to the Kshatriya, to the Brāhmana. That means from Tamoguna, Rajoguna to Satvaguna. And then I become one day utiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpyavarān nibodhata! I get the desire, ‘No, no, enough of samsāra. I want to become, I want to go to God, and I want to be with Him forever, permanently. Never coming back.’ So, He goes back. And then first time, how did you come down? Same thing can happen second time. Infinite number of times. So therefore, there is a fallacy there.

So, our Vedās do accept the theory of creation. Is it because it is true? No. It is because you can't tell to a madcap you are a madcap. In fact, you have to tell a madcap everybody else is mad, you alone are a sane person. How does it help? That person will have complete faith in the teacher who says you and I we are the only non-mad persons in this whole world. And he becomes friends with him, and he trusts him.

And slowly, through a methodical means, the psychiatrist, he guides him so that slowly, slowly, slowly he brings out, ‘So, you were telling that your name was Ramu. Yes, yes. But now you are telling it is Shamu. Oh, I must have committed a mistake.’ Slowly, he will bring up and then make him understand.

It is not a miraculous process. What the psychiatrist does really is he only makes the madcap understand, that first of all that madness is his own thinking. Secondly, he was not always mad, because if he was by nature mad nobody can make him good. In between it has come because of some experience, some event ( and especially painful event ) and he cannot resolve the problem. So, promptly he starts becoming mad, means forgetting, rising above that thought. He becomes a yogi. So, mad yogi.

What I am talking about? Temporary escapism. By thinking I am not that suffering person, I am somebody else. I am okay. Like that. But problem will not go away. If it is a real problem it will be real only. So, slowly the person makes the patient think for himself, accept himself, remember himself, and then a time will come that he says, ‘Oh! I was only deeply thinking that I am so and so. No, no. The truth is I am what I am. This is called recovery.’

( 40:44 mins )

So, same methodology. I was Brahman. I forgot I was Brahman. I thought I am Jīvā. So, I became mad. The Bhava Vaidya Guru, Bhāva-roga vaidyaha, he comes and he convinces me through Shravana, Manana and Nidhidhyasana, and he makes me think that I was never really mad. I was only Brahman.

So, the Vedās accept because we believe there is a creation. I am a Jīvātmā. I am born of my parents. My parents are born, If you want there are photographs. Photographic evidence is there and hospital records are there. How do you say I am born, etc. So, it is there.

Then why do I turn to God? Because of suffering. Anybody will turn towards God not by being happy but being unhappy, suffering, etc. Pāndavas realized it, especially Kunti realized it. She praised Krishna that only when we were suffering we were remembering you and so you were with us. But the moment there is no suffering we will not remember you and you will not be with us. What a marvelous piece of psychology.

So, Gaudapāda says that the suffering that you are creating if it is real, it will never go. Take note. If the world is real, if my birth is real, I can never ever become Brahman. If both happiness and unhappiness are real, I can never get out of it. But if they are seeming, especially I am thinking that there is. Just like our dream we think someone is troubling me. If I think like that, yes, it is possible for me to get out of it.

So, there is no Jīvā . And if I say there is no Jīvā - the Jīvā is only in the context of the world - The idea of Jīvā goes along with the idea of the world. The idea of the world goes along with the concept of the Jīvā.

I will expand it with a few examples. If a person says I am your mother, a person can never be a mother without a child. And if the child says I am your child, a child can never be without a mother. Child and mother, husband and wife, good and evil, birth and death, happiness and unhappiness, Jīvā and God, they always go together. This is what he wants.

If there is no such thing as Jīvā, there is no world. If there is no world, there is no such thing called Jīvā. But how do we... because everyday we are experiencing it. But what are we experiencing really? It is nothing but Brahman. How do we understand?

Another example I will give you. That example is suppose somebody whom you know very well comes in a disguise. Can you recognize? Not immediately. And you may get frightened also. But after some time, the disguise is removed. What is the point? Point is the person has not become some other person. The disguise only disguised the person for a short period of time. Because when a person is disguised, that disguise is only a temporary something. And nobody can keep something temporary. Why? Because it is called temporary. If it is permanent, it is permanent. If it is temporary, it is temporary. Disguise is temporary. So because it is temporary, it will be temporary only.

So the infinite can never become finite. Finite can never become infinite. This is how Gaudapāda wants to make us understand. If any one of us are thinking that God created - what is the first problem? Creation means change. Creation means change. So the curds, one of the examples, the milk becomes curds. And the milk gets destroyed and the curds become the reality. The inside material will be the same but so many things have changed.

( 45:45 minutes )

The seed becomes a plant. Before the seed becomes a plant, the seed gets destroyed and then only the plant will come. And the curds can never go back to the state of the milk. But fortunately, that is the remedy. If you want to get further curds, what do you do? You take milk, heat it, and curds can create only curds.

So the plant cannot go back into the seed state. Yes, it will go back. When it grows up, it creates further seeds and it will continue.

So Brahman cannot become Jīvā. Jīvā cannot become Brahman. Brahman cannot be Kāranam. Kāranam cannot become Kāryam. Kāryam also cannot come out of Kāranam. That is what Advaita Vedānta wants to convey to us.

For now, we see the world. We think it is real. There must be a cause. I will give a small illustration because these are very, very fine points. Suppose you are dreaming. In the dream, somebody comes and he is troubling you. He is about to kill you. And you are asking, ‘Why do you want to kill me? What is the cause? Did I do anything to you? This is the first time we are meeting. You tell me, convince me, why you want to kill me?’ And then the dream is broken. Once the dream is broken, would you go on telling, ‘Why did that fellow come to kill me? What did I do?’ Would you go on asking? Because you understand, the whole dream is only imagination. Imagination is not reality. And therefore you will not question.

Similarly, after realisation, one does not question. That is a very beautiful thought we have to understand.

The Nirākāra, Nirguna, Nishkriya, Nirvisesha, Brahman can never become the Kāranam of the world. Impossible. As I said, Infinite can never become finite. It is not possible. Neither the finite, it can never become Infinite. What does it mean? Brahman can never become Jīvā. And if at all there is a Jīvā, Jīvā also can never become Brahman. And if there are both Jīvā and Brahman, then it is not Advaitam. It is only Dvaitam. It is not possible.

So Paramātma has not become the Jagat. And the Jagat also cannot become Paramātma. Then, what is all this about? Well, we are thinking, like a mad fellow who says, I am Napoleon. He is thinking, because of some wrong habit, that I am so and so. I am not what I am, but I am somebody else. Because it is a false thinking. Falsity will always go away. Temporary something will always go away. Very interesting argument, you know.

Somebody becomes permanently mad, then he is not called mad. He will be a permanently right person. Madness is always for a temporary something only.

So, just to say, if we are created, we become Jīvās, then we can never become Brahman.

Why? If we become Brahman, then same thing will happen. Again I will fall back. And again I will try. Any number of times. That is not desirable at all. The only thing is, now we are thinking.

Just one more illustration, I will do for today's class. Supposing you are seeing a snake, in semi-darkness. And then, somebody brings light. Now you see a rope. Will there be anybody, who will be arguing, at what exact Muhūrta (moment) the snake is born? And how much it has grown? And how much poison it contains? Will you be discussing about it? No. But when? Only when light is brought up.

Similarly, all our efforts of studying Māndukya Kārikā, is just for that, to bring the light. Once we get the light, by whatever means, all these arguments become totally irrelevant. But until that time, they are very relevant. I will stop here. And there are beautiful things going to come up, which we will talk about in our next class.

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