Taittiriya Upanishad Lecture 74 Ch2 5.1-5.3 on 15 October 2025 Q&A
QUESTION 1: On Religious versus Spiritual Life
Student A: Maharaj, I want to compare two personalities. One is a religious person, has a strong faith in God and in the times of great dukkha, she gets a vision of God and leads a life of complete dependence on God, in sukha, dukkha, but does not really bother about leading a spiritual life in particular. In the sense, she wants less suffering, that's when she calls upon God.
Maharaj: That is how actually progress is made, just as a baby grows into a child, child into an adolescent, adolescent into youth, etc. So, nobody falls from the sky completely spiritual person. Even the stories of the saints that we hear, they have done in the past life. Because we don't take into consideration past lives, that is where the problem comes.
So, first there is a worldly person called materialist, charvakas. They neither believe in God nor believe in life after death, much less higher worlds. So, they say, Rinam kritva ghritam pivet (translation: Borrow money and drink ghee). So, use your credit card and enjoy your life. It is up to the bank how they are going to get their money.
But a person goes on suffering, no worldly means can ever remove the suffering. Then there is no choice, there must be some way. Because hope is embedded in every human being, in every living being. So, then he slowly imitates maybe parents and goes on pilgrimage, japa, yajna, prays to God.
But mainly he prays to God, but a religious person means you have to understand, what you described is not correct. A religious person truly, a real definition, true definition of a religious person is, he believes in God, he believes in dharma, he believes in satyam, and though he has worldly desires, he will not give up righteous life. You understand now?
Student A: Yes.
Maharaj: The so-called religious people who go and pray, let my daughter get a good husband. There are some people who pray. They saw a friend of their daughter's getting a better husband. And they pray to God, let that husband run away from that girlfriend. Marry my daughter.
Yeah, yeah, you will see all sorts of things. So, these people, they are lower religious people, I call them. But you know, through experience, through suffering, slowly their understanding becomes better.
And they say that belief in God means belief in the scriptures, isn't it?
Student A: Yes.
Maharaj: And belief in the scriptures means belief in karma siddhanta, isn't it?
Student A: Yes.
Maharaj: And belief in karma siddhanta means that they know, if we do something wrong, even if we pray to God, do japa, tapa, we cannot escape the consequences. Slowly, over the many number of janmas, lives, this transformation takes place.
Then, I gave the definition. A truly religious person, he has many worldly desires, but he will not deviate from satyam and dharma. That means he lives mostly what is in this manomaya kosha, understand? Anahata chakra.
And then, that punyam purifies his mind further, his understanding becomes better, then he turns. Every worldly desire has two consequences. First, it will come to an end. Second, the opposite effect, he will fall from that state. There is nothing called continuous. kṣhīṇe puṇye martya-lokaṁ viśhanti (Bhagavad Gita 9.21).
So, from svargaloka, people are ready with their right leg lifted up. The moment punya credit is over, they will give one kick and from that svargaloka, they fall down. Okay? And then, slowly. āvṛttacakṣur amṛtatvam icchan (Katha Upanishad 2.1.1). Then, after through many, a life of suffering, introspection, then they understand that spiritual life is the only life worth leading. That is called evolution. And then, slowly they progress through sakama, nishkama and one day they become nishkama. Nishkama means what? We want only God-realisation and nothing else. That is called nishkama. This is how progress starts.
So, be very clear. The people who pray for their selfish desires and also for the suffering of other people so that their selfishness will be fulfilled, they are not really... I do not consider them as religious persons.
QUESTION 2: On Faith versus Shraddha
Student B: Maharaj, trying to understand when faith becomes Shraddha. Is it right in understanding that the religious person who follows dharma, like you explained, because they go by faith and the spiritual person is guided by Shraddha?
Maharaj: Religious person who believes in scriptures, not only in God. Belief in God means belief in the scriptures. He understands. That is why I said this person has complete faith in the scripture. Belief in God means belief in the scripture. Belief in the scripture means belief in the karma siddhanta.
So, if I want to avoid suffering, I have no option but to follow Satyam and Dharma. These are the two important words. And as a result, what happens? He experiences whatever has been promised in the Vedas. Okay? That direct experience of what is promised, if you do this, you will get this result. That goes on increasing his faith.
And when he has more faith, then his eyes travel further, higher. And he says the same scripture, which is talking about fulfilling our desires, going to higher lokas, etc. is also later on condemning those very desires and asking us to desire only God realisation. Now that faith only leads to that knowledge. Isn't it? Then he will further evolve. And he will fall down. He will get up. He will move forward. That is how he will evolve in course of time.
Until from sakama upasaka, he becomes the nishkama upasaka. And that is when truly spiritual life starts. Until then, it is a lower religious life and higher religious life, but not spirituality.
QUESTION 3: On Totapuri Maharaj's Nirvikalpa State
Student C: When we look at this pancha kosha and how we progress through it, with the different contemplations, so far I've understood that once we, nirvikalpa state would be to transcend all the koshas.
Maharaj: Correct!
Student C: So from that aspect, and then also that I've understood that to transcend each kosha, we must see, realise Brahman at the individual as well as the cosmic level in that kosha.
Maharaj: Correct!
Student C: So now from that, I'm not able to understand about Totapuri Maharaj's experience because if he attained to the nirvikalpa state, transcending all the koshas, but he still could not comprehend at the cosmic level, you know, that is what I'm not able to resolve.
Maharaj: Correct. I have spoken about this subject, I think quite extensively, quoting this very story of Totapuri. So what must have happened because we are talking about those great souls, which neither I understand nor you understand, savikalpa, nirvikalpa, but honest assessment, you know, what is called assessment? The understanding of an ass is called assessment. Okay.
So my understanding is the Divine Mother was pleased to show him the nirvikalpa samadhi, just like Swami Vivekananda was shown a glimpse. Now you will have to strive for that. Sometimes by God's grace, the highest revelation is bestowed, not that he becomes established, but yes, I have seen such a thing exists and now there is no doubt.
So a person becomes very anxious, intense yearning comes to attain to that state. So my understanding is the Divine Mother had sent him, you teach whatever you know to Sri Ramakrishna and then Sri Ramakrishna will take you to the other side. Now you understand? He tried to commit suicide. Why should a nirvikalpa man commit suicide? You have to understand many things. I have referred to this and talked about it extensively.
So he has been shown a glimpse because a man of nirvikalpa samadhi doesn't make distinction sacred fire and secular fire. Even I cannot see any distinction between, but if I put my hand either in the sacred or secular, equally it burns me with total indifference, isn't it? How he could see, and he was about to beat a person also. Sri Ramakrishna laughed and then he understood I have not attained to the highest.
Then in the company of Sri Ramakrishna for 11 months, slowly he was being given better and better understanding because Sri Ramakrishna is the Jagad Guru. Like Krishna had his Guru Garga Maharshi. But Garga Maharshi said, you know what he said? I know you are a Parameshwara but to keep the tradition otherwise people will not come. You are accepting me as your Guru but you are the Guru Namguru, Adi Guru.
So, you know that he felt terrible pain in the stomach. He wanted to commit suicide. This is one of the greatest puzzlements for me. A man of nirvikalpa samadhi fails in committing suicide. Even I can commit suicide, anybody can commit suicide and he could not commit suicide. Then he understood that everything is Brahman.
Your body, your mind really do not belong to me. That is what we have to apply here. When I say transcending Annamaya Kosha means Annamaya Kosha does not belong to me. Pranamaya does not belong to me. Manomaya does not belong to me. Vijnanamaya does not belong to me. Anandamaya does not belong to me. Everything belongs to Brahman. And therefore there is no second person called me and you.
Student C: So Maharaj, then some of the direct disciples like Swami Brahmananda and all they did a lot of spiritual practise after Thakur passed away and I think he was asked and he said something like that we are doing this to make it our own.
Maharaj: Exactly.
Student C: So is that what is happening?
Maharaj: Ramakrishna had given a glimpse because of his grace, but once you see something you can't say such a thing doesn't exist. And once you see such a thing you will never again run after anything lower. You only want that. That is the whole point of a detachment from this Sthula sharira. Gross body, then subtle body, then causal body then what remains? The same thing in this five Kosha model, five Sheeth model but same thing.
QUESTION 4: On Practicing Vairagya in Daily Life
Student D: I have a question slightly different from Kosha's. I would like to ask you how do we practise Vairagya in everyday life in relation to people?
Maharaj: Excellent question. The very first practise I suggest you take all the unhappy experiences of the last month keep in a diary what are all the unhappy experiences that you had with persons, places, food etc. Okay. Now you go through them and then you say what has happened temporarily some setback was there but I am exactly what I am, and now in spite of all that am I in doldrums or am I enjoying something? How are you able to enjoy? Because you have transcended that mindset which is making you despondent. Isn't it? So, you practise like this. That is called Vairagya. Somebody praises you, don't get elated. Somebody criticises you, don't get depressed! You get good food don't go on saying "marvellous, marvellous today I am very lucky!", don't say. "It is okay, it is okay", simply say "By God's grace I enjoyed it".
Apply everything, relate everything, associate everything with God. Somebody abused you, okay, "God is teaching me a lesson". Somebody praised you, you don't become something great if somebody praises you. You don't become worse if somebody criticises you. This is called practise of Vairagya.
What is Vairagyam? Vi Raga. Raga means what? Being affected. No, no attachment means what? Being affected. What is Vairagya? Not being affected. As simple as that. Simply say that I will fix my mind upon something more worthwhile and that is the only way to practise Vairagya.
If you don't have a higher goal I will go on battling with this day to day incidents, that's not going to help you at all. That is why one of the best examples. Suppose somebody, imagine, has abused you whole day and then even beaten you up, and you are suffering, mourning and complaining, depressed, then you enter into deep sleep state. So long as you are in that state, you are the greatest Vairagya or not? So much of joy comes or not?
So imagine that with consciousness, with awareness, we have to be in that state where nothing touches us, we are very happy.