Post Aarathi Talk 34 on 12th June 2018

Full Transcript(Not Corrected)

So what is it that then compels us, like why do we want, you know, where is that coming from? That we do not know. That is why we call it maya. Maya. See, the whole question can be asked from two viewpoints. One viewpoint is called dvaita viewpoint. Dvaita means dualist, dualism and qualified nihilism. God is personal God. They never accept impersonal God. Parabrahma, Advaitic Parabrahma is not accepted by Advaitins. Only Advaita accepts it. So both have got flaws. So if Eshwara is creating us, then who created this maya? That is what Bhagavan also says clearly in Bhagavad Gita. Daivihesha gunamayi mama maya duratyaya. But that is no explanation why God wants us to... So that is also not a relevant question or rational question because if God created this world, what is this world? Only God. So who are you to question God? It is God who is playing all this ignorance and as though He covered His eyes and He is searching and doing all those things. My point is, rationally, we cannot question, we cannot answer. That's the point. That's what Buddha's main emphasis is. If somebody had pierced you with an arrow, who discharged it? Why he discharged it? When he discharged it? How he discharged it? These are useless questions. You are in pain, take out the arrow and try to become a better person. Now we are here. So the mind is restless. You ask why the mind is restless. Don't ask who made the mind restless. So is it possible for the mind to become restful? The answer, emphatic answer is yes. And this is all great saints and sages are telling us, yes, it is possible for you to do that. What I was trying to understand is like with effort, with God's grace, as the mind is cleared more and more of this bewitching maya, then is that what really happens? Then we get a complete clear picture of the Atman in the mind. Yes, because not in the mind. In the mind it is always a reflection. That is why this Advaita Vedanta is very useful in understanding certain things, satisfying. So when you are looking at the reflection, do you really focus on the reflection or do you really focus on yourself? Why do you use the mirror at all? The mirror is only an instrument for making myself better. So the mind is the greatest mirror. So whatever the reflection takes place, whatever it is reflecting, the whole world is that kind of thing which is reflected in the mind. And how we perceive the world doesn't depend upon the world, it depends upon us, how we perceive. That's why I elaborated, the mirror itself is limiting our knowledge. That means the problem is not with the object which is reflected, the problem is with the mirror itself. The mind is the greatest mirror. If we can make the mind absolutely quiet, then the reflection will be real reflection. So how to make the mind quiet, that is our quest. How to make the mind quiet? Are there methods? Yes, there are methods. And there is a particular way. You cannot simply start Dharana Dhyana. You will have to start where? It's what's called Kriya Yoga. Yama, Niyama, and in that order. In that order. It's very interesting, I will not go into it today. Why Ahimsa is the very beginning point? Because the whole problem comes from what? Ahimsa. I want to injure somebody, I become jealous of somebody, I want to become better than somebody. It is all Ahimsa. Do we do Ahimsa to ourselves? Actually we do it to ourselves. If you have to believe in Karma Siddhanta, you are not doing anything to anybody. Karma Siddhanta is the most wonderful Siddhanta. So can somebody help? Can somebody help others? If you believe in Karma Siddhanta. I quoted today morning that story of Lakshmi who wanted to help a devotee. Today? Yesterday. So you have to understand that point very clearly. Can you help somebody? Swami Vivekananda says you can't help anybody. The world is not waiting for you and me to help. It is giving an opportunity to become better ourselves. It is a very deep philosophy. That's why Swamiji says the giver is more blessed than the other person. Now you ask, extend that question. Can we harm somebody? You cannot help somebody. We only by helping, trying to help the world, who is helping? I am helping. So by trying to injure the other person, who is injured? So it is an extension of the same question. We can help nor we can injure. This is Karma Siddhanta. Now you understand, so much confusion comes because the basic understanding is lacking. What is Karma Siddhanta? Every one of us gets exactly what we deserve. It could be happiness, it could be unhappiness. So by trying to injure the other person, can you make that person unhappy? If he doesn't deserve. Swamiji, you say everyone offers exactly what we deserve. Yes, everyone gets what he deserves, not offers. We get what we deserve. So your point is we are not actually doing any good. Neither harm. We are not doing anything. But we are instruments. Because I am here to exhaust your karma phala and you are there to exhaust my karma phala. So where does any action come in? The action comes because I want to get something good. This is the whole basis of Karma Siddhanta. If I do good to you, who is going to get the result? Me or you? Exactly. Not seeking our own self, not seeking self-realization is also harming ourselves. That is the greatest harm. That is why in the Isavasya Upanishad, in the third mantra, clearly it is said, Asurya Anamate Loka Andhena Tamasavrata Tangate Pretya Abhigachanti Ekecha Atma Hano Jana Those who do not strive to realize God are killing, as it were, they are suicides. They are killing themselves. You know what is the killing themselves? Let me give a small analogy. A person is very very thirsty and he stepped out in search of water, naturally water. So he has a choice. Here there is a very dirty pool of water and here there is a beautiful, clear water available. And I will add a bit of masala, it is free. The dirty water is very costly and this clean, pure, cool water is completely free. Now tell me, if a person is intelligent, what will he choose? Clear water. Now if he is a foolish fellow, what do you think he will choose? And most of us are choosing what? Dirty water. Dirty water means, in this analogy, what is it that we are first of all paying? Karma is nothing but payment. Payment for what? For getting our own happiness. Our nature is happiness. Where are we seeking it? Outside. And how are we getting it? By paying it through our nose. You understand? So Vivek Chudamani, having obtained this precious human birth, can there be such a foolish fellow that he doesn't... he who doesn't strive, what should he be called? He is a madcap. He means one who is a terribly idiotic fellow. This is the truth. After all, what is it you want? Happiness. So people go after various things only for happiness, isn't it? Not any object, that you have to be very clear. We are not after any object. No wife loves her husband for the sake of the husband, but for the sake of oneself. The moment she stops giving happiness, he will look for elsewhere. Same thing, vice versa. Like that. So ultimately Agnewalke concludes, no object is dear to anybody in this world, excepting one's own self. Because this is the most dear thing in this whole world. That means what? If nobody is dear, that means nobody loves. Because we love only what is dear to us. And why do we love what is dear to us? Which is dear to us? What is the meaning of dear? Only that which contributes for our happiness. This is the truth. That is why in Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, there is one that this Atman is dearer than the sun, dearer than anybody else. Why? Usually, you know, a son is more dear to a family man than anybody else. A mother is ready to give up her life for the sake of the son. A father is ready. But dearer than even the son also is a conditional love. What is conditional? First of all, you should be my son. If you are the other person's son, I don't care. Secondly, he should be a dear son. What is dear son? Whatever I ask you to do, he will do. If he is a disobedient son, how many fathers really love disobedient sons or daughters? Have you noticed my style? I am not telling how many daughters. I said how many sons. So, you must enjoy it. Always they are finding fault. Always feminine jokes, you know. Always criticizing. I am criticizing men also. So, how many fathers or mothers love their children when they do not love them back? And what is the proof of love? The person must do what I expect from that person. Isn't it? Even if that person is wiser and does something else because we are fools, we don't understand that. They should do what I expect the person to do. So, Atman is the dearest. Why? Everybody loves Atman unconditionally. Every object is loved what? Condition. What is the condition? That you must give me happiness. So, the next question will be give me one object in this world which gives unconditional happiness, uninterrupted happiness. Nothing else. Body doesn't give. There are only two things. Here is the most wonderful thing. The whole world. How many objects are there? Billions and billions of objects are there. But you should not think of billions and billions of objects. You must think of only two objects. Because all the forms in this world are experienceable only by my eyes. If I am Andha, four-fifths of the world is gone. If I am deaf, three-fifths of the world is gone. Now you understand the concept. If when I am in deep sleep, is there a world? Then what happens? When there is no world, I am closer to myself. The state where your reflection, some object comes in between, your reflection is interrupted. Waking state is an interruption. Dream state is another interruption. Deep sleep is much less obstruction. That is why deep sleep gives such a peace of mind which you will not get from any object. First, how do we know? Because nobody wants to be interrupted of deep sleep. You disturb somebody eating rasagulla, it is okay. You disturb somebody sleeping, he will get annoyed. So that is uninterrupted for a long time. Every object lasts for how long? Very short time. But deep sleep lasts for how long? For quite some time, from the waking point of view, for quite some time. Because that is the least bit, that is why they have given a special name for that state. Anandamaya Kosha. Deep sleep is equated with which Kosha? There are five Koshas. Annamaya is equated to this gross body and sthula pravincha. Anandamaya is equated to the sushukti and karana sharira. In between there are three. What are these three? Pranamaya, Manomaya and Vijnanamaya. These three are combined into what we call sukshma sharira, where we experience dream state. Now you come back. Everybody wants only ananda and pure ananda comes where? That is why study of the sushukti is one of the greatest studies in this world. What is it? In waking state we experience an object and it gives both sukha and dukha. How does the same object gives me sukha and dukha? Anjana, are you okay? Come on, my friend. Do you want to see me? Come on, come on. I am waiting for you. So, on the way back home or on the way to London? How are you? Let the good vibes roll. Yeah, what a wonderful, you know. Yes, I have to give you something very nice. Hey, Ishu, Ishu, Ishu. How is your dance? How is your production? That's it. You colored your nails green. Blue. This is sweet. Come on, Nitya. Straight from work. Home. Okay. So, what were we talking about? Sushukti. Yes. What happens in sushukti? Sushukti is a state where there is the least obstruction from ourselves. So, technically, we say that what is maya shakti, what is it that separates us from ourselves. Separates us from ourselves. Because there is nothing else. What is that separates? There are two powers are there. One is called vikshepa shakti, another is called avarana shakti. So, that is very interesting. How do we mistake Brahman for everything else? They give the illustration. Supposing, here is a table. And if it is not covered with anything, we recognize this is a table. Suppose, you know, you put here one box. Cover it. Now, we don't know, we only see, what do we see? Box. Now, if we are asked, what is this? We say it is a box. Now, you understand, this box is shaped like an animal. Say, like a big bear. Now, what do we say? What do we see? A big bear. Now, two things are happening. First of all, table is covered. Second, it is projected. It is called vikshepa, means projection as something else. This is a phenomena psychologically. So, there is a threefold process. First, there is the object. Then, it is covered. And then, it is projected into some other object. So, there are two powers. The physical object, covering, and then projecting. The covering power is called avarna. And the projecting power is called vikshepa. Now, when we are in the waking state, both powers work. When we are in the dream state, both powers work. When we are in the dream state, only one power works. We do not know what we are, but at least we do not think we are somebody else. In the deep sleep state, we do not think we are the body, we are the mind. You see the point? But we do not know what we are, because it is covered. So, instead of distancing ourselves from two things in between, only one thing is there. And therefore, we are nearest to the atma. And that is why we get so much of happiness. This is the first analysis. The second analysis is even more interesting. So, in the waking state and dream state, we need an object to get happiness. But in deep sleep state, we get happiness without any object. Now, what does that prove? That proves that a particular object is not necessary for happiness. Get the point? You have to listen and make it your own. This is only what I am telling you. It is information for you. You will have to think, and is it true? And go on thinking, maybe I have spoken something wrong. You should not blindly swallow it. That is, the process of listening is called shravana. The process of thinking deeply is called manana. And making it one's own is called nididhyasana. But without shravana, you cannot get to that point. There are so many things we have to learn. So, this is the greatness of sushupti. That is why some people even consider it as samadhi. But what is the problem? This samadhi, first of all, is not under our control. You cannot simply say, I will enter into deep sleep. You require somebody like Swami Dayatmanand. Okay. Even the people who complain, I did not sleep, we have very good sleep. So, it doesn't come. Secondly, when it comes to an end, that is also not in our control. How long it will be, it is not also in our control. It comes, it goes. Whereas samadhi, deliberately practiced, controlled, because it is controlled, we are the master. Sushupti is our master. Now, samadhi is we are the masters. That is the difference. Anytime you want, you can have. Interestingly, can a man of realization enter into samadhi at any time? It is a wrong answer, wrong question, wrong answer. Because when is not a man of realization in samadhi? Samadhi means knowledge. Once you have knowledge, you will always have knowledge. But there is a difference between knowledge and knowledge. Because when we have knowledge, when we are knowledge, having knowledge, aata hai, jata hai. Aaya raam, gaya raam. Whereas, when I am knowledge, in whatever state I am, I am always there. So, now we have been discussing this Brahmananda Valli. The definition has been given, satyam, jnanam, anantam, brahma. So, they are all, first of all, they are not three separate words. You cannot understand one word without relating it to the other word. You will have to relate all the three words. And of these three words, the most important word is anantam. That is the key to understand the definition of brahma. We are not talking about anything else. We are talking about brahma. What is it? Satyam. What is the definition of satyam? Satyam means truth. Truth means, in Vedantic language, it is actually existence. Because what exists without change is called truth. Whatever appears to be changing really doesn't change. What appears to be changing is called asatyam, mithya. There, this requires a little bit of deep thinking. There are three concepts. Existence and non-existence. And existence appearing as temporary existence. What about non-existence? Is there something called non-existence? There is nothing called non-existence. Absence of experience is called non-existence. This is a very important point. What is it that makes it either existence or non-existence? Experience. I see the table, then it is existence. I don't see the table. For two reasons it can happen. Either I have gone blind, or the table is not there. But where can it go? It cannot go anywhere. It is there. So a very interesting question is posed. Very interesting question. Supposing I am here in this room and bright light is there. I see a table. Imagine, just a table as an example. One table is enough. I am seeing the table. Suddenly the whole light goes off. Midnight. Suddenly it goes off. Now the question is, has the light gone off or have I become blind? How will you decide? Until the light comes back, how will you decide, have I become blind or... Light has gone. Light has gone. How will you decide? Solve the problem. Experiencer will know. No, no. I am asking, don't bring experiencer and experiencer and get confused. Yeah. If I cannot see something... You know, we require light to see anything. It is midnight. But light is there. Suddenly light comes. No other light is available. Now, has light come or suddenly I have become blind? How will you know? There is no way to know. Now why is this question very important? When I perceive something as non-existence and say it is non-existent, did that object really become non-existent or have I temporarily become blind? What do I mean by blindness here? I am not talking in this analogy, blindness. The inability to see. If this table is in that room, I can't see it. But if this table suddenly has become a chair, can I see the table? Do you follow what I am talking about? A carpenter comes. Or let me extend a bit of mashala. It is midnight and light is there. I see the table. And suddenly, you know, light gone. I don't know whether I am blind or the object has gone. Imagine, slowly a carpenter will come, take this to the next room and make it into a chair and brings it here and suddenly light comes. What do I see now? So, now what happened? Has the table become non-existent? Do you understand? There is nothing called non-existent. That is why the 16th shloka of the 2nd chapter of Bhagavad Gita is so wonderful. na sato vidyate bhavah na bhavo vidyate satah ubhayor api drushton tah tanayo tatvadarshibhi The asat, the question of asat does not exist. Then when we say something is non-existent, what exactly do we mean by that? I don't see it. I don't see it in that form. That is what Shankaracharya wants to drill into us again and again. The table has become a chair. So, absence of the form of the table is not there. But that form, is it there or not? It is there, but it is in another manifestation. So, that temporary attention on the table-ness or chair-ness is called mithya. Because what changes is name and form. But wood is not changing. It is the same material. Ornament is even better. So, we consider normally, and gold which is the source and ornament, though we know inside, it is one and the same. So, you say golden necklace, golden ring, etc. So, it is... but where is our attention? If it is a lump of gold, it is not valuable. But the same gold, when it is turned into a nice vadanam, we call it, you know, this lady's foot. My mother had a... I never realized all those things in those days. This thick, this big, heavy. How much it must have cost, God alone knows. Only special occasions they will take it. Nowadays, it is dangerous to keep at home. People come with metal detectors. Find out, you know, some people hide it in this rice bag. How many of our devotees have lost? And they are targeting only Indian households. That's why India will never become economically... Yes, because 50% of the man's economy is a moving economy, fixed economy and flexible economy. This is called fixed assets. Land, house, ornaments, these are the things. So, what are we talking about? There is nothing called pure non-existence. Such a concept doesn't arise. And what is existence will never disappear. Existence will be eternally existent. And non-existence will be eternally non-existent. If we understand this concept, such a person becomes a realized soul. Now, what are we talking about? We talk this world as mithya. What is mithya? We are focusing upon the changing forms. And every form has got two functions. It has a name and it has a function. Nama, rupa and prayojana. Because the chair's prayojana is different, we sit on the chair. But we don't sit usually on the table. We keep certain things on the table. Everything has got a prayojana. Now, what is the point? Mithya means existence looked with the eyes of name, form and what we call qualities or prayojana. That is what is called mithya. And so long as we continue to do that, this will completely obscure our vision of existence. Now, why I am telling? When we say, oh, I had a golden ornament and it is stolen. That means for me it is non-existent. But it is existent in some other person. Suppose you gifted it to somebody. So, you don't regret. So, when somebody gifts it himself, that is the problem. A journalist was taking some statistics. He went to a college and he was taking statistics. Which book do you love best? Somebody said chemistry, somebody said mathematics, somebody said Shakespeare. One student he was asking, he says, I love my dad's cheque book. Best loved book in the whole world for me. So, mithya, we are dealing with mithya. Now, the whole Vedanta is there to tell us mithya is nothing but masquerading with form, name and an utility. If we can understand, we don't lose anything, there is nothing to be lost and that is called true knowledge. That is called satyam. What is satyam? Behind every form and name there is only one truth. So, there is a beautiful discussion about this in the second chapter. Shankar Basha himself gives beautiful discussion. Supposing a man has a table and he loses it. That means our concept of the losing table, the existence of the table is lost. He doesn't give the example of table, but I am giving ghataha, means pot. He is always talking about pot. Who can talk about pot? Only he who has gone to... That's why old age is considered as what? Pottery. Not only tottering, but pottering. Pottering means old age people, you know, this pot, that pot and the other pot. So, ghataha, pataha and these are the common examples. For example, Shankaracharya, this ghataha, means a pot, is destroyed. So, the ignorant person says, then it is destroyed, gone, completely gone. No, Shankaracharya says, it is not gone, because the pataha is there. A cloth is there, a piece of cloth is there. Do you see that cloth? Yes, yes, I see the cloth. Then ghataha is... existence associated with the pot is not gone. What is gone? The name and form of the pot is gone. But then he says, but I can't see pot in the cloth. This is the next question. Yes, you don't see because the nama rupa is not there. But the moment the nama rupa comes, you will see. It is a bit subtle argument. If this pataha is gone, ghataha is gone, the other ghataha is there. If all pots in this world are also destroyed, pataha is there, something is there. If everything is destroyed, nothing is there, no, nothing is not there. You are there. So, suppose I am not there, what is the problem? With whom are you going to argue? The doubter, doubt remains only so long as there is a doubter. If the doubter is doubted, the doubt can be doubted, but the doubter cannot be doubted. Because even to doubt there must be somebody there. So, so long as I know I exist, the whole universe exists. But what is our problem? Our problem is we are not identifying with my real I. We are identifying with what? With body and mind. Body and mind is mithya. Because it is masquerading, the true I is masquerading as body and mind. How do we know? So, how do we know? Every single day we are experiencing it. How? Every single day we are in three states, or I would say four states. Every single day we are in four states. What are the four states? What is the first state? Waking. What is the second state? Dream. What is the third state? Deep sleep. What is the fourth state? Turiya. How do you find it? How do you find it? You have to define it. Simply saying will not do. You know how we find it? Because I am in the waking state is a thought. I am in the dream state is another thought. I am in the dream state is another thought. How do you know it is another thought? If it is the same thought, you can't say it is second thought. If you have to say second thought, then you have to remember there was a previous thought. Between the previous thought and present thought, is there a gap or not? If there is no gap, there will be only one thought. If there are two thoughts, there is a definite gap. And what is that gap in between two thoughts? That is called Turiya. This is the most important point we have to discuss. Imagine three rooms. Two examples are given. Three rooms. You are in room A. Then room 2 and 3, really speaking, don't exist for you. All that you can experience is only this room. The moment you step into the second room, the other two rooms are non-existent. When you enter into the third room, exactly the same thing happens. But who is constant? You are moving from room A to room B and room C. This is one way of understanding. The other is, all the three rooms are based upon what? Three walls? What is it that separates one room from the other room? Only wall, is it not? Nothing else. If you break one wall, suppose three rooms, how many rooms will be there? Two rooms. You break that wall also, how many rooms will be there? You break that wall also. Emptiness. So that space is the second example. The space is not changing. The walls are changing. This is another way of speaking. I am there in waking. I am there in the dream state. I am there also in the deep sleep state. Do you see the wonderful analysis? And we are not talking about imagination. We are talking about day-to-day experiences. Now go a little bit further. When we are in the waking state, is that real or unreal? Real. So long as we are in the waking state, that's the only reality. What happens to other two states? They are totally unreal. Even though we know, upon waking up from a dream, you think, I had a dream. But how do you consider the dream experience now, as real or unreal? Unreal. Now come back to the dream state and say, what happens to this waking state and deep sleep state? Real or unreal? What is unreal so long as you are in the dream state? What is real? Dream state. We don't say dream state is dream state. We say dream state only, only in one state we say it is a dream state. Which state? Waking state. Only waking state. Because in deep sleep state also we don't say anything about it. So this is the condition. When we enter into deep sleep state, the other two become totally as if non-existent. Now this is called mithya. What is mithya? I am experiencing reality only all the time. But when I am in the waking state, I identify that reality, the only reality. And when I go into dream state, the other states are unreal. When I go into the deep sleep state, all the other two, whichever state we are, that alone is the reality. Now in this state of reality also, there are two states. One is me and what the experiencer and another is what is experienced. What is changing constantly? Experience. And who is it that is not changing? Experiencer. So now the question comes, is it possible for me to be identified with myself and totally ignore what is being experienced while experiencing it? It's very difficult. It's like movies, action movies. That is what every realized soul does. Ramana Maharshi, for example, he sees. Very beautiful example he has given. Very beautiful example. I gave it many times, but I know you are all very good devotees. Once Ramana Maharshi was sitting in the hall and he was talking with some devotees. And mind, Ramana Maharshi speaks very rarely. Unless somebody asks, he rarely speaks. Sometimes he will just pass one or two. Most of the time he is a mona swami. So once some devotees were asking him, Swami, you are an awakened person, you also help us get awakening. This was the question in a waking state by some devotees to Ramana Maharshi. Listen carefully. Then Ramana Maharshi laughed and said, Let me narrate one of my dreams. Few days back I was having a dream. Exactly that dream was, I was sitting in the bed, you were also sitting, we were also talking about Mithya and all those things. It was night, time to go to bed. Then one of the people there in the dream, mind you, asked me, Bhagawan, you are an early riser. Because he always by 3 o'clock, fresh as a flower, he used to get up. He had that ability. Even if he goes to bed at 12 o'clock or 1 o'clock, like Mahatma Gandhi, even sometimes he used to go to bed at 1 o'clock, but when he wakes up, fresh as a flower. At what time? 3 o'clock. Like a regular clock. Napoleon had that capacity. Anyway, you are an early riser, and what do you do after waking up? You meditate. And we also want to join you in meditation. So wake us up, after you wake up, you wake us up. That was the dream. With that dream, the dream broke. With that incident, the dream broke. Now Ramana Maharshi having narrated this dream, he said, now what shall I do? Shall I go back and wake them up? Do you get it? Do you get it? See, that was a dream. Dream broke. So who was requesting? Dream. Dream devotee requesting to be woken up. So, now the dream is unreal. Who is going to wake up? Whom? You are asking me to enlighten us as good as that dream. Because I don't see you as an unawakened person. That is very difficult for us to understand. We can each other say, and I am an unawakened person, therefore you are also unawakened. The science of that I am unawakened is, I see you as unawakened. If I am awakened person, I will see you only as awakened person, not an ignorant person. That's very difficult to understand. So, this is the beautiful reply that we get. In the eyes of a Brahman, everything is sathya. There is no anritham. Anritham means asathya. There is no sathya. Therefore, brahmavit apnoti param. In way of Brahman, he becomes Brahman. In the eyes of Brahman, is there any abrahman, non-Brahman? Is it ever possible? It's not possible. That brings another problem for us. But what about Sri Ramakrishna's teachings? What about scriptural teachings? Are they waste? They are not waste. Because there is another side of the question also. Can an unrealized, non-realized soul understand the condition of a realized soul? Is it possible? Therefore, when we are looking at Sri Ramakrishna, what are we doing really? We are looking at him as a non-realized person. Yes. What is the proof? We are talking. Oh Lord, you are a realized soul. Please wake me up. If I understand him as a realized soul, will he see me as a non-realized soul? Where is impossible if we really understand it? So now what are we making? We are making a distinction. You are a realized soul and I am a non-realized soul. In the eyes of a realized soul, will there be any non-realized soul? So what are we talking about? Na sato vidyate bhavaha. Na bhavo vidyate sataha. Sataha means pure existence never becomes non-existent. So Swamiji, when we pray, are we only practicing dvaita? Sure. That's all we are doing. That's all we are doing. You cannot do it. Because no prayer, no prayed, no person. Because in your deep sleep, what are you doing? Dvaita. Dvaita. No, no, don't say I don't know. What do you mean by I don't know? You are completely 150% conscious. Conscious, but you say I don't know because there is no other object excepting yourself. That's why you say only I do not know anything. But who doesn't know anything? Who says I do not know anything? I am saying. I do not know anything. Who is saying? I am saying. That means I am completely aware. I am there, but I did not know anything. So it is not an experience of abhava. It is a complete bhava, like waking, like... but there is no object. To understand this one, I will give an example. Suppose in this room there are two tables. And you ask a person, how many tables are there? What will he say? Two tables are there. Suppose one table is taken away. You ask him, how many tables are there? One table is there. Suppose that table also is taken away. You ask him, how many tables are there? What does he say? He is saying, no. Now here is the point you have to understand. Whether there is a table, whether there is no table, there is somebody there completely conscious to say either there is a table or there is no table. You see the point? So in deep sleep what are we saying? There are no objects. In waking there are objects. In dream there are objects. In deep sleep there are no objects. But I am there, you are there. In your deep sleep you are completely aware. How do you know? You say, I slept well. Then who slept well? You slept well. You don't say that Swami Dayatmananda came and slept well. I did not have any good sleep. I did not know how time passed from 11 o'clock to 7 o'clock. But I did not sleep. Swami Dayatmananda slept. Will you say that? What do you say? You slept. But then I did not know anything. It means there are no objects excepting one object. What is that object? Not knowing. In darkness, imagine the whole room becomes dark. We all experience darkness or not? So are you experiencing darkness or not? Just as we experience light clearly, we also experience darkness also clearly. Are you getting what I am trying to tell you? Not all of it, I will be honest. Where is the I in deep sleep? Who is experiencing? Who says, I had deep sleep? Where did that I go? Are you able to understand? If I is not to be there... During deep sleep, when we come out of it, we say, I had a good sleep. That's where the confusion is, I think. During deep sleep. Did you understand at least what I have been talking? If I were not there... That's why I give this analogy. Here is light. I see light. Here is darkness. What do we say? Do we say, I don't see anything? What do we say? I see darkness. I experience darkness. What does that statement mean? That statement means, that means, I don't see any objects. Experiencing darkness means, absence of experiencing any objects that could be revealed only by light. That is the state of deep sleep, where the experience of objects is lacking. That's all. The objects are there, but we are in such a state, we don't see objects. So the deep sleep state is like the state between two thoughts. Is that the same thing? Between two thoughts. Again, put that question. We have a thought, and we have another thought. There is a gap. We don't realize there is a gap. Who said that we don't realize? We are realizing it all the time. Otherwise, who says, previously I had that thought, and now I have this thought. Who is saying that? We are sort of joining the dots to say there must have been no thoughts. No, you are not joining the dots. You are going through the process. This is one thought, this is no thought, this is another thought. I am there during the previous thought, I am there during thoughtless thought, and then also I am there during the second thought. Otherwise, the biggest question comes, if I were absent between two thoughts, how did I come into the second thought? For example, Guruji, if I am talking about table, and then I am talking about chair, I say I finished talking about table, now I go on to chair. So, we can still say I am talking about two different objects, two different topics. At the same time? No, no, one after the other. So, we have to expand the time to so much level to really see, understand the gap. That's why we are losing it, I think. But we are clearly conscious because it is that consciousness which tells us that there is a gap between one thought and the other thought. Now, as I said, you have to go and think back. Because normally, we are associating always only with the thoughts. In pure awareness, we are not aware. But it is there all the time. If it were not there, then nothing can be experienced. So, what is the point here? In deep sleep, it is not absence of me. It is not absence of awareness. Thank you. Hari, do you understand what I am talking about? In the deep sleep, there are no objects to experience. Or I would put it in another way, because this is not 100% correct statement. I am not in a condition to perceive the objects. Objects are there. So, the experiencer is still there in deep sleep. Without the experiencer, there could be no experience. Deep sleep is the best experience. And it gives a lot of happiness. It is the only state where you get uninterrupted happiness for a long time. So, self-realized souls, do they know that they are in deep sleep? Yes. So, that is the difference. They are experiencing no objects. See, the nearest analogy I can give you, there are three rooms. There are three people staying in three rooms and experiencing whatever is there in room number one, two, three. But, you know, suppose you put CCTV in the three rooms and there is a fellow in his screen, all the three rooms are completely lighted up. That person is monitoring what these people are experiencing. Of one room, he is experiencing all the three rooms. So, how do we know? Is it a logic or is it a fact? It is a fact, because Turiyanandaji was asked, what is the condition of a Jeevan Mukta? Does he sleep? Does he dream? He said, yes, just like normal. He will be in the waking state, he will be in the dream state, he will also be in the dreamless state. He is a constant witness. He is a witness, he is not a participator. But yet, we see him eating. Is he participating in eating or not? Does he enjoy the eating or not? So, can he be a witness while enjoying? Yes, he can be a witness even while enjoying. But what happens? He is not caught. Why is he not caught? First of all, supposing somebody is beating up, that also he witnesses. Suppose he is enjoying something, that also he witnesses. So, that is what happens. Whenever we are in one particular state, that state affects us. Why does that affect? Because that seems to be the only reality. But if we can compare it to the other two states, oh, the same thing is different in dream state, the same thing is totally different in dreamless state. That comparative knowledge we do not have. If we have, when we have that comparative knowledge, nothing affects us. And yet, we enjoy everything. You know why we enjoy? A Jeevan Mukta enjoys? Because our problem is we are constantly attributing our experience to a realized soul's experience. What is our experience? A crystal clear division. This is me, everything is totally different from me. Whereas, a Jeevan Mukta is constantly experiencing, in this state I dressed like this, in this state I dressed in that way, in the third state, this is a different, dresses change, but I am the same. That knowledge he has got. What is the knowledge? Nothing is, no reality, first of all. Secondly, even appearance of reality, at the same time, is me only, nothing but me. Therefore, there is no fear I will lose myself. It is pure existence. What about our problem? We are constantly experiencing what we call Mithya. Again, I have to clarify it. We are not experiencing non-existence because there is nothing called non-existence. We are experiencing this Mithya. Brahman as Mithya. What is Mithya? Nama and Rupa. So, we are having sometimes, when a table is destroyed, what is being really destroyed? Is there any object destroyed? There is no object called table. It is a wood with a particular shape and name. When we realize that fact, man, woman, dog, Vidya, Vinaya Sampanne, Brahmane, Gavi Hastini, all dresses, different dresses. I am in the... This is the point. I am in the different dresses. That is the point. I am the Brahmana. I am the dog. I am the elephant. I am everything. Then suddenly the names and forms become absolutely redundant. There. Everywhere. There is no point. That is becoming redundant in deep sleep also. Not only that. Can I just interrupt? During deep sleep, he wanted to observe what deep sleep is. The question he was asking. He wanted to be aware. He struggled a lot. He himself writes in one of his books. Who? Turiyanand. He said, I came to a stage when I could really observe deep sleep. He was aware that he was... Normally we are not aware. We are ignorant. But he was aware. Then he found that he had lost a lot of... He had to struggle a lot. Then he lost sleep. He had to struggle again maybe. He was happy in that state definitely. But then again sleep returned. That is what he says. So he had to... He observed. What is the effect now? You see, we can never understand this state because how to be an observer, how to be a participant at the same time. For us it is impossible. But for a Jivanmukta, it is the most natural thing. Just like dream and deep sleep also observes the deep sleep. Completely unaffected. But for that, you cannot simply say, I will be a participant in waking state, but I will observe only deep sleep. You have to... That kind of false reality is not going to help us. We have to be a witness for... In fact, we are witnessing. But we don't understand. We understand also. I was a small baby. Now baby has grown into a... like that. Anyway, in Houston, I went to one devotee's house. Not now, many years back. He had two pictures. One was 20 years older. One was more or less present. So I went curious. You know, he looks a little bit younger and like that. Then I asked... Then he himself came and... Swamiji, this is Subash, 20 years older and 20 years earlier and very foolish. This is Subash, now 20 years later, still foolish. Yes. I liked it so much. So, you see, we are having witnessing. We are also participants at the same time. Yes. Swamiji, can I come back to my question on prayer? Yes. Because Vedanta is here, what you are telling us. Yes. We all... We go to the shrine here. We pray at home. Yes. But what we are practicing is Vaitha. Yes. Because practice takes place only in Vaitha. Yes. Any practice, prayer or praying. P-R-E-Y-I-N-G. P-R-E-Y-I-N-G. P-R-E-Y-I-N-G. Praying or praying takes place only in Vaitha. Vaitha. Okay. So my question is, actually the normal prayer we do actually takes us backwards if we want to have a Vedantic outlook because we are forcing ourselves here. If we correlate that, you have Ishta Devata or whatever you want. There is a separation. There is no need to correlate. You should not correlate. We are talking theoretically about Advaita. Practice is only Dvaita. We know intellectually, even intellectually we cannot conceive how me and God are one and the same. That is only a few people try, but even they cannot. There is a very funny story. There was an Advaita teacher and he had a disciple. This disciple studied under the Advaita teacher for 20 years. He was not happy. He left the Guru and somehow something was troubling him. He went to a Dvaita teacher and studied for 20 years and convinced himself Dvaita alone is real and Advaita is just propaganda false. Now he was very... 20 years of Dvaita study gave him the confidence I could argue and win over my former Guru. So he came to the former Guru and the Guru understood. Then the former Guru asked, what brings you back? So he said, No, no, all your teaching for 20 years Advaita alone is true is false and I have studied Dvaitam for 20 years. It is Dvaitam alone is the truth. I want to argue with you. Guru said, that's fine. I am going to have a shave. So let me finish my shaving. After that we can discuss. So the barber came and shaved the Guru's beard completely. His face was shining like a Brahmagnani. Then the Guru turned towards the barber and said, Oh my God! You gave me such a wonderful shave. I look like Brahman and only another Brahmagnani can give me Brahmagnana. And with that he made his Hastanga Pranams to the barber. The moment the barber saw the Paramaguru making Hastanga Pranams Swami, Swami, are you Aparadha? And then he ran away. And the Guru looked at the disciple. Why did the barber run away? Because I am a barber and you are a Paramaguru. This is pure Dvaita. For knowing that Dvaita why did you waste 20 years? Even a barber knows Dvaita is the reality. For that you wasted 20 years. The disciple got this thing and came back with it. The point is prayer, all the spiritual practices are valid only in only Dvaita. Once we come to Dvaita there is no need for who is the Guru and who is the disciple. That's why we have a funny story. One Shukadeva he was he thought that he was not realized. He went to another Janaka Maharaja to be certified, you know. It's a beautiful story. Shukadeva was the greatest Paramahamsa in the Indian literature. Even his father was not that much enlightened. So there is a story, you know that? One day this Shukadeva was 16 years old. He was just born after 16 years in the mother's womb. He was not coming out. Vyasa's son, right? Vyasa's son, yeah. Then Vyasa was praying to Mahamaya, Oh mother, please cover him otherwise he refuses to come out. Mahamaya said, Alright, I will grant you. I can only hold him for one minute, one second. After that I can't hold him. Okay, just one second. That one second he came out, 16 years old. Don't take it literally. 16 years he started walking. Vyasa was in love. My son. Such beautiful looking, shining, innocent, pure, full Advaita knowledge. So as he was walking, Vyasa started, Oh my son, Oh my son, Hey Putra, Hey Putra. Then you see, Shukadeva was identified with the whole world. And all the trees, all the mountains, Yes father, yes father, they were replied. That was his knowledge. As he was going, there was a lake, some beautiful women were taking bath. Shukadeva was naked. He was walking past. The ladies, what was their reaction? A piece of wood is floating. That's it. So Vyasa was observing this. Then Vyasa, fully covered, he was approaching. The moment those ladies saw Vyasa Deva, immediately they jumped out and then Putra and then Shaili. So Vyasa Deva stopped. Asked, What is this wonderful thing? My son is 16 years old. I am 70 years old. And he is naked. And I am fully covered. As soon as he came near, then you did not even react. And when I came, then they replied, See Vyasa, you are still body conscious. What do you know? In Bhagavatam it describes Gopi's beauty. What is beauty? Body. Body. The whole beauty. You are fully aware how a beautiful young lady looks like. I don't want to go into all these Indian details, you know. If you go to any temple sculpture, you will see it in graphic details. So Vyasa Deva, he did not have that identity. Whereas Shuka Deva, he never felt that I am a man. I am a... everything. I am a woman. So they also did not feel. Such a person is one story. Such a great soul. Just to describe what great he was. Then you see, Shuka Deva learned everything and he became perfect. And his father said, you attained Brahma Jnana. But because his father was telling, he did not have faith. He did not have that much of faith. So, his father understood and said, you know, there is another great Brahma Jnani, you go to him. If he certifies that you are a Brahma Jnani, you are Brahma Jnani. So Shuka Deva agreed. So he came to Janaka and Janaka of course understood. There is another story, I will tell you. Then he asked, alright, I will teach you Brahma Jnana, but first give me fees. Shuka Deva said, you did not even start teaching me, how dare you demand fees. He said, this is such a knowledge, when I finish, you will see no difference between guru and shishya. Therefore, it is better that I get my fees. Beautiful story, you know. Anyway, the other story is, Vyasadeva sent him, so Shuka Deva came to Mithila. And then Janaka Maharaja was an enlightened soul. He knew that Shuka Deva was coming. So he gave orders to the servants, when such and such a man comes, do not even look at him. So Shuka Deva, he was not allowed to come inside. He was there outside for seven days and nights. Nobody enquired about him. Nobody asked whether you take bath, whether you have food, breakfast, sleep well, nothing. Although completely he was non-existent, seven days passed. And Janaka Maharaja also observed his face. What changed? I am such a great soul, Vyasa's son. Nobody came to receive me, etc., etc. Seven days passed. Suddenly, this Janaka Maharaja rushed with all his, you know, bandhi, balga and all those things, and then fell at his feet. Oh, Mahaparada, Mahaparada, the South Indian version. Shastang Pranams, Aparada Swami, Aparada. I never knew that you were coming. And just now I came to know and seven days you were naked, come with all the honour, took him inside palace, the best room in the whole world, and then royal bed, royal food, and royal maidens fanning him day and night. Seven days and seven nights passed. Somebody was observing his face. What happened? Because he was neglected, no change in his face. Because he was fitted, so there was no change in his face. And then Janaka Maharaja had to say, you don't need any instruction, you are perfect. So this is a very significant story, symbolic story because why Sri Ramakrishna had to practice second time sadhana? Because Shraddhan Ji raises this point. He says a sadhaka may have doubts, maybe I had a vision, but is that vision real vision or am I imagining? How to know about it? But if there is a guru, then he will tell. So three things are necessary to certify an experience is a real experience. Shastra, Guru, Svanubhuti. Shastra Upadesha, Guru Svanubhuti, and one's own. If they tally, that is correct experience. If they differ, then he is deluding himself. Because what is not in the scriptures, what is not confirmed by the guru, it is only insanity. Yes, this is how we understand. Another point Shraddhan Ji discusses, how do we know our experiences are spiritual experiences, are true? If it is a spiritual experience, it transforms our character permanently. Permanently. If it is our imagination, only for a short time we will feel a little bit excited. And after that, yatha mooshikavat. Yatha mooshikavat. You know that? Mooshikavat? Punar mooshikavat. Mouse. Be a mouse like in the former times. There is a story there. You don't know. Say there was a saint and there was a small mouse going around. Whatever food he leaves, you know, he eats that one and he was happy. She was also happy. One day, a cat came and the mouse became very frightened. So it took refuge. The rishi understood and then he said, Marja ro bhava. May you become a cat. He became a bigger cat. So the other cat ran away. So he was roaming like that. And one day a dog came. The cat got frightened. And then the rishi said, Rishuna ko bhava. And he became a dog. And then he was very happy. Then after a few days, a leopard came, a tiger came. Then he became surprised. Alright, Vyagro bhava. And this fellow became the other tiger anyway. Now this tiger. Punar mooshikavat looked at the rishi and said, Very nice food. The rishi understood it. Punar mooshikavat. What beautiful stories, you know. So, we don't get it. These are beautiful stories. Shukadeva, how does he know? Because his father could not certify it. So Janaka could certify, yes, the realisation you had is the same realisation that I had. And the same realisation is also mentioned in the scriptures. So, always these three. Shastra, Guru, and Svanubhuti. If an experience tallies with these three, then that is real experience. Otherwise, not. Otherwise, who knows? So, another way of understanding it is that Vishwamitra thought he had deep meditation. That was, whose idea was it? Vishwamitra's idea. The moment the Apsara came, then he felt like a pack of cards. Then he understood that my meditation is not real meditation. It is fake meditation. So that's why Guru, without Guru, in our practice. It is very, very important. This Shastra, Guru, and Sadhana, these three must go in parallel. Now there are some people, I will not mention their names. They neglected Guru and Shastra. They thought that they have realised something new, and completely they have misunderstood. And because they could write very nicely, they become popular. And even philosophy, what is called PhDs, on this philosophy of so-and-so, and thinking that those fellows have attained true realisation and other things. Why did Sri Ramakrishna practice second time Sadhana? To prove to the world that it was not here, merely his imaginations, but the Guru certified it. The scriptures already mentioned it. It is an authentic experience. For us, that is the only way. This is the most wonderful thing we have to understand. Coming back to wrap up what we discussed, Satyam, Jnanam, Anantam, Brahma. First of all, Satyam means that which never changes. And that which never changes can only be one. Can you understand the point? No, no. Psychology. We are talking about psychology. That which never changes can only be one. Because if there is one unchanging and there are many other changing things, then that cannot be true. That is why two Satyams, two changing Satyams cannot be. But one changing Satyam called Mithya and one Satyam is possible. Two Satyams cannot be. Two absolutes cannot be. Do you follow what I am talking about? Because to observe change, there must be somebody who is unchanging. And what is the definition of Satyam? One not changing. Yes. So, if truth is what is unchanging, whatever is experienced as changing is truth or untruth? Untruth. Untruth. So, there cannot be two truths now. There are one truth and one... Untruth. Untruth, for beginning. It is only a starter point. The next point will be so different, actually speaking. So, if something is untrue, if it is true, only it will be untrue. If it is untrue, it will be only true. So, both are same. There cannot be... My point is, truth can be only one. There cannot be one changing truth, one unchanging truth. Logically, to confuse the brain, there are two people called A and B. A says B is a truthful person. A says B is a truthful person. He will never utter any untruth. And B says A is a liar. No, come on. It goes round and round. If B says B is a truthful person, that means whatever A says is... No, A says B is... A says B is a truthful person. If you have to believe A, B is a truthful person. And the truthful person says A is a liar. If A is a liar, what he says is a lie, then B is not a truthful person. What is our point here? There cannot be two truths, one changing and one unchanging. That much you understand? Whatever is unchanging alone is the truth. Whatever is changing is not true. If it is not true, it doesn't exist. So satyam is that which is unchanging, and there can be only one thing unchanging, and that is the existence, pure existence. So that is where this word satyam, jnanam, anantam... Anantam is to be joined with this word satyam. Satyam is anantam, because truth is infinite. If you don't join it, you say there are many many truths, this truth is unchanging truth, this second truth is a little bit, 90% only changing truth, the third truth is 80% changing truth, it goes on and on and on. That cannot be. That is why these three words can never be separately understood. They have to be understood absolutely. Then if there is the entire infinity, infinity alone cannot change. Why? What will it change? If happiness changes into what? Black changes into what? White. White changes into what? Infinite changes into what? Day changes into what? Night. Light changes into what? Darkness. So infinity can change only into what? Because there is nothing else, therefore finite. Infinity can change, change means only it can become finite, nothing else. And if it becomes finite, is it infinite? So infinity can only be one. That's where we have to say existence is. Now our practical problem comes. I see a table, I see a chair, I see billions of things I see. All of them we say they are. How do you justify that? The justification is, if you are focusing upon pure existence, there is only one. But if you are focusing upon name and form, it is what we call mithya, is not existence, but name and form. And name and form, anyway mithya. Mithya means by definition what? Appears to be not really true. If it is not true, where is your problem? If they are mithya, they are non-changing, that is the point. If they are mithya, then they are not satya. If they are not satya, how many satyas are there? Only one. And what is that satya? Anantam. Anantam alone is the satya. This is the beautiful logic. So the next point is gnanam. Very, very important. There are two types of gnanams. Every object is an embodiment of gnanam. That is true gnanam. Gnanam and astitvam, satyam, is one and the same. But what are we talking about whenever we say there is a mithya gnanam? What is mithya gnanam? Changing gnanam is mithya gnanam. And changing gnanam is mithya gnanam. Mithya gnanam belongs only to changing aspect. So what is that changing aspect? Nama and Rupa. And if they are changing, they are satyam or mithya? If they are mithya, the knowledge is satyam or mithya? If it is mithya gnanam, is it gnanam? Mithya gnanam means what? No gnanam at all. Agnanam. But if we don't know what mithya is, how will we know what is satya? The other way round. If we don't know what is satya, you say this fellow is a liar. How do you know this fellow is a liar? Only in contrast with a truthful person you know he is a liar. But we associate I as a body-mind complex from that angle. That's why here Shankaracharya comes to our aid. Constantly this I is manifesting in two ways. One is the eternal witness. Another is the changing identity. So when I say that I am now an old man, this is an identity with the changing aspect of my body as well as mine. But when I say, oh you know, that was me, small boy, that was me, adolescent, that was me, young person, that was me, middle-aged person, I am telling I was that, I was that, I am that, I am that, I am that, I am that. If you are a changing person, how can you be that? You are this or this or this. This is the truth. Now what is it? Focus upon unchanging I. How to focus upon unchanging I? Because it is not easy. We are so much identified with the changing I, our unchanging I is almost obscured. To bring this idea we accept the idea of a God. What is our idea about God? Unchanging, isn't it? So He is unchanging in two ways. Desha wise and Kala wise. Desha wise and Kala wise. And even the most ordinary person has got exactly the same idea. I will give an illustration. At your home you have Narayana's photo. Here, imagine there is a Narayana photo. Now, when you are at home, you bow down to that Narayana. When you come here, you bow down to this Narayana. Do you get the idea that Narayana is real Narayana and this Narayana is a fake Narayana? That means, what is your idea? He is everywhere. He is everywhere. Ten years back you bowed down to that Narayana. And ten years later you are bowing down to that Narayana. Do you say that you are ten years older? Because in 2010 you were younger, now you are older by 80. Do you say about Narayana? That means time wise also He is unchanged. And these two ideas are connected. Time and space are connected. If one changes, the other also changes. We have this idea, God is everywhere and God never changes. Now the point is, we cannot focus upon that idea in our day to day normal life. Therefore we are asked to meditate upon the unchanging. Now when you are meditating upon Narayana as unchanging, both time wise and space wise, really who is thinking about? Your mind is thinking of unchanging time wise and space wise some being. That being, that thought of that being is yours or Narayana's? Therefore you are slowly approaching, changing your own mind, shifting from the me changing, but Narayana is unchanging. This is the most beautiful thought. So if anybody says, I believe in God, you know what he is believing? You ask him, what is God? That He is not born. You can't say God is born. You can't say that which is not born is going to age, unborn baby is growing up. And unborn baby has become youth. Unborn baby has become old. Unborn baby is dead. You can't think like that. Unborn means deathless also. That means all changeless. Unborn means changeless. You are slowly focusing upon God. That means what? You are having an idea. There is something, some being who is unborn, who is unchanging, who is everywhere, whom time and space cannot bind. You are having a clear idea. And what is realization? One day that God comes. That God becomes real. That means your idea of changelessness becomes real. And then you understand, if God is changeless, He is all the time. If God is spaceless, He is everywhere. Then where from do you come in between butting? You understand? That is where you cannot say, Swamiji, your speech is fine, but... You cannot but. You don't but it. Because you disappear. As you focus upon unchanging, your changing eyes slowly transform. How it transforms? You cannot think of something unchanging without yourself having an idea of unchanging. This is how meditation slowly helps us to become more steady, etc. Beautiful. That is why upasanas are designed so that from lower step, okay, I am changing, but there is somebody who is unchanging. So, a little bit more. One day you realize that the other one is nothing but a mirror. Vriddhi. That Narayana whom I am meditating is what? When I am thinking of unchanging Narayana, I am dressing myself as what? Unchanging Narayana. Do you follow what I am saying? If you are having a beautiful dream of Narayana in your home, who has become that Narayana? In my mind. Did Narayana come into you or you have become Narayana? Can you understand that? Could you understand that point? Not really. The dream world that we create is in our mind. Okay, let me give you the graphic illustration. We are having this talk. In which state? Hopefully. They are hearing something. Yeah, okay. So, you go home tonight. Imagine, or yesterday you went home, you had a dream. Exactly the same room, same me, and I was clarifying some points, your understanding, and then many, many wonderful things I have spoken in your dream. And you are telling, Swamiji, I have been hearing your talks for the last so many years. I was about to say 20, but that would not be true. So, so many years. But yesterday's talk, today's talk, is the most marvelous talk I have ever heard in my life from anybody. In your dream. Then you wake up. Now tell me, who delivered that talk in your dream? Who delivered? Same thing, this is what happens in our meditation, meditation visualization. That means what? We are, with awareness we are creating a beautiful image of ours. In dream, we are doing it in a slightly different way, but full awareness. But in waking state, we are recreating ourselves as Narayana. But we don't dare to say that. Now come back. In your dream, suppose Narayana appears, blesses you. You wake up. Now tell me, who delivered that talk? You. And then who blessed you in the form of Narayana? Tell me now. You yourself. This is the truth. The truth is, because we still think I am small, I am alpagna, alpashaktiman, and alpayushman, but all the thoughts that we are thinking of is only the soul dreaming, the soul dreaming that it is awake, the soul dreaming it is dreaming, the soul dreaming it is the deep sleep state. But when we really wake up, then we understand I have been dreaming all the time. This is the truth. Did you say the soul is dreaming? In our state, we have to use that word, our waking state is the soul's dreaming that it is a waking state. You don't get that point. Because when you are dreaming... Soul has no... Jeeva has no... Jeeva has. Atman doesn't have. Jeeva means endowed with body-mind. It goes through these three states. That's why you listen and think deeply and you will understand one day this soul, real soul doesn't dream, but it is the so-called... Jeeva. When you wake up, you say that you don't say, Oh, what a fool I have been, for so many years I have been an agnani Jeeva. This point, Vivekachudamani, Shankaracharya brings out in the letter, he says, first two points he brings out. One point is, the disciple after realisation is exclaiming, Oh, Guruji, just now the world was there, where did it disappear? Because there is no world when a person gets awakened, there is nothing called world. The world exists only in the state of bondage. The second point, most interesting point, in the beginning of Vivekachudamani, Shankaracharya says, when a person becomes enlightened, his Sanchita Karma is destroyed, his Agami Karma is destroyed, Prarabdha Karma remains. Like a Kulala, like a potter, he moves the wheel and goes away. But the wheel goes on moving until its energy comes to an end. Like that, the Prarabdha, even though the person has realised, the Kulala has stepped out after realisation, but this body-mind goes on, that is called Prarabdha. This is only in the beginning. For whom? For agnanis. But later on, advanced students say, when a person doesn't have any relationship with body-mind, where comes the question of Prarabdha? You know how, like that, like what? For an enlightened person, even if there has to be Prarabdha Karma, there is no Prarabdha Karma. There is absolutely no Prarabdha Karma. The effects will never be felt like how for a normal person the effect will be felt. Because we don't understand. Because we don't see an enlightened soul. We see only body and mind. That's all we see. That's why we judge a person, an enlightened soul, by the enlightened soul or by seeing the body-mind? Body-mind. You don't know what is an enlightened soul. But all that we see is he is always happy, and he loves everybody, and he is ready to sacrifice everything, and he looks upon everybody as exactly samadarshi. Prabhu mere avaguna chitta na dharu. These are the characteristics by which we guess if this is the effect, there must be a cause. Otherwise, what is true enlightenment? Nobody can describe. I also have mentioned in the past talks, you cannot describe not only enlightenment, you cannot describe anything. You describe to me this table. Suppose I have never seen the table. You describe to me. That is the basic given. You should know table for me to explain table. That is what you said in the other class, Gurudev. No, what I said was something similar to the table. But you have to tell me what you know, then I can describe table. So, description is always through the known to the inexperienced. So, this is the condition. That is why, you know, what we say Rama-Ravana yuddha. Describe Rama-Ravana yuddha. Rama-Ravana yuddha ki drusham Rama-Ravana yuddha ha Rama-Ravana yuddha ha The war between Rama and Ravana is like the war between Rama and Rama. There is no other way. Unless another person has seen a table, you cannot give the exact description. We are able to describe only inadequately showing something similar. Everywhere, anumana, upamana, all these pramanas come into play. But it is inadequate however much you describe. You cannot describe exactly. But you can tell the people some knowledge. It is like that. The true knowledge comes only through direct experience, through nothing else. Now, what is our point? We are talking the highest truth. But that is not our experience. We are still in the dvaita. And dvaitic vision of advaita is dvaitic vision or advaitic vision? Hari should answer that. It is dvaitic only. It cannot be anything else. But it gives us... That's why it is not called description. It is called a point. Every description is a pointer. There was a funny story, you know. There was a... what is called professor of morality. Morals. Moral class. He was very immoral. Somebody asked him, how come you are a professor of morality and ethics, you are immoral. He smiled. Without batting an eye. Have you seen a sign go this way? Have you ever seen the sign going that way? It is only meant for us. The sign board never moves. I am like that sign board. Very, very interesting. Anyway, somebody, a young man approached Socrates and asked him, I am thinking of getting married. What is your advice? You know what he said? Young man, go and get married. If you are lucky, you will have a very happy married life. If not, nothing is lost. You will become a great philosopher. So, there is a lot of truth in that. We all become philosophers. Only when we go through a lot of unhappy experiences, the quest comes. But I want to know, why I am suffering, where am I suffering, where am I, where am I supposed to go? Tapatraya abhigatat jignasa. It starts with that very first sutra. Tapatraya abhigatat jignasa. Inquiry starts only when a person starts suffering from Tapatraya. Otherwise, no. It is not going to happen. This is the truth. So, that is why God has designed also ups and downs. So, when we go through the downs many more times, then slowly inquiry starts. This is the absolute truth. So, tomorrow we will discuss those other two points also. Let us see what happens. Maharaj, what Mr. Bholi said, that when we pray in the prayer room, we are going to... www.mooji.org