Mandukya Karika Lecture 081 on 14 December 2022

Full Transcript(Not Corrected)

OM JANANIM SHARADAM DEVIM RAMAKRISHNAM JAGAD GURUM PADAPADME TAYO SHRITVA PRANAM AMI MUHUR MUHUR OM BHADRAM KANNE VISHRUNAYAM DEVAH BHADRAM PASHYE MAKSHABHIRYA JATRAH STHIRAY RANGAYE STHUSHTU VAGUM SASTANUBHI YASHE MADEVAHITANYADAYO SWASTHINA YINDRO VRIDHYASHRAVAHA SWASTHINA PUSHA VISHWAVEDAHA SWASTHINA STHARKSHYO ARISTANEMI SWASTHINOBHRIHASPATIRDADHATO OM SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI HARE OM OM O Gods, may we always hear with our ears what is auspicious. O worshipful ones, may we with our eyes always see what is auspicious. May we live our allotted life, hail and hearty, offering our praises unto Thee. May Indra of ancient fame bestow auspiciousness on all of us. May the all-nourishing potion be propitious to all of us. May Garuda, the destroyer of all evil, be well disposed towards all of us. May Brihaspati ensure all our welfare. OM PEACE PEACE PEACE BE UNTO ALL So we have entered into the Vaithathya Prakaranam of the Mandukya Upanishad. Mandukya Upanishad is over. Now Godfather's commentary is going on and this is the second chapter. Vaithathya Prakaranam means the chapter dealing with the falsity, with the seeming reality of the world. That means all the three states of consciousness, with the waking, the dream as well as the sleep. For that, Gaudapada, from now onwards as I said, it is only Gaudapada's compositions called Karikas. Gaudapada wants to prove Prapancha Upashamam, the words that have been used in the seventh mantra of the Mandukya Upanishad. Shantam, Shivam, Advaitam. So all these words, Shantam, Shivam, Prapancha Upashamam, complete unreality of the world, when we understand, then we will progress in spirituality. So realization of God and realization that this world alone is not God, that is very important. When we say something is Mithya, we have to understand a simple fact. I have been emphasizing it again and again that some people suddenly take it into their heads and they will never get rid of that idea. Mithya doesn't mean unreality. It is seeming reality, meaning what? Incomplete reality. Just as four blind people touching different parts of an elephant, they consider whichever part they are touching, that alone as the whole of the elephant. That is the real meaning. When we are in the waking state, is it real or unreal? It is partial reality. But taking partial reality as the whole of reality can create a lot of problems. I'll give you an example. So taking the dream state as the whole of reality, that is another mistake. Taking the deep sleep experience, Sushupti, as the whole of reality is also not proper. All these states make us think in whichever state we are, that state alone appears to be the real state. That is the mistake. So if we take all the three states together, then we will be able to understand that there is something which is completely a whole, infinite and that should be realized. Then all the states can be enjoyed separately, individually, but we will never again be caught. And as we go, we will try to explain these understandings. But the most important point is what? Mithya is not completely unreal. It is partially real. So don't take this partial reality as a truth. I'll give a practical example so that we can understand better. Supposing there is somebody and that person hates you and he creates endless amount of trouble for you. So long as you think that is the reality, then you are caught in the mesh and you can never get out. You will be suffering in other words. But then what happens? You understand that the dream, if this happens in the dream, when you wake up from the dream, so long as you are in the dream, you suffer. But when you wake up, you laugh at yourself. And what do you laugh at? Because that person who is giving you trouble, another person who is helping you, loving you, looking after you, is ready to give up that person's life for your sake. They are all nothing but your own creation. Who is the enemy? Who is the friend? But this we understand upon waking. Similarly, when we wake up from this so-called waking state, we understand there is no enemy. There is no friend. There is no other than anybody. These are all lay things created by our Samskara through our mind, different thoughts. And be a witness and enjoy all of them. A Jeevan Mukta enjoys all of them. And you may say, but he is suffering from his viewpoint. There is no suffering. The killer and the killed, the sufferer and the cause of the suffering, everything is one self only. It is like a solitaire game. And this idea has been so beautifully expressed in a Bengali song, Helicho e Bishaloye, you are playing in this world, Virat Shishu, like a huge baby, Anamone, although you are making a mud, sand castles or a mud house and breaking it and again making it and as if when it is broken, your heart is broken. When it is made, your heart swells with joy and proud, pride of creativity. But then when the evening comes, then Godi Cho, Bhang Cho, you are creating, you are destroying also. But at this stage, we may not be able to understand this is the highest truth that is being given to us. So what is the essence? It is Mithya means partial reality and when we understand true reality, the suffering or both the joys and the sufferings caused by the experience of the partial reality will turn out to be a continuous unbroken joy. That is what we will have to understand. So in our last class, we have been dealing with the 5th Tariqa or 5th verse. What is it? The Godapada very clearly says, The thoughtful persons, the persons who are wise, Manishnaha, very interesting word, that is very wise people, that is spiritually realized souls, speak of the sameness of the waking and dream. What does it mean? That means the reality of the dream is equally exactly the same as much value of the reality of the dream, so much value of the reality of the waking state. There is absolutely no difference. Why? On account of the similarity of the diverse objects perceived in these two states and on the well-known grounds already described. So what is it? Drishyatvam. In my last class, I have discussed it. Whatever I see, that means whatever I experience, I see, I hear, I smell, I taste and I touch, it is all unreal, temporarily real, permanently unreal. And this is a wonderful idea by itself. If really we can understand temporary reality, because everything is changing. So if we can understand that everything is temporary, I get so much joy while eating a sweet, but it is temporary. The moment I understand that, I enjoy it, but when it disappears, when I don't get a sweet, I won't regret, I won't suffer. But when it comes, oh, this is a temporary phenomenon, let us enjoy it. And we do it in many cases. For example, when you are traveling by an auto rickshaw or by a taxi, Uber, or in an aeroplane or a train, you know that your seat in the auto rickshaw or the train or plane is only temporary. But you enjoy it and they serve some drinks also, you enjoy it. Enjoy it because you better enjoy it. Why? Because they have already taken the money from you. So if you don't take, you will be the loser. So you know that. How do we know? That as soon as the destination comes, for example, in the aeroplane, you are very anxious that you should be the first person, because I myself have done it many, many times. So what happens, you know, when I used to travel a lot, as soon as the plane lands, there is a moment when other people are just trying to get in. I get up, I have only one handbag and I just take it and I will be standing near the door even before the door is opened. And the host sometimes looks at me peculiarly and I don't care. Nobody objects because I will be the first person to get out. Of course, it depends on where you are placed in the aeroplane. Always it is not possible. Okay. What is the point here? Even though we claim that seat as my seat, we know it is temporary. But do I apply the same thing with our house and our partners, our spouses, our children, our parents, our property, our jobs, our health, our age? We should apply the same thing. I hope you understood the point. So those who are wise people, they say the reality of the dream is only very temporary and it is changing. Exactly the same thing we should apply to the experience of the waking state also. Why? Veda Anami Samatvena Because the experience in both Samatvena that is there are so many things, so many events, so much time change, is exactly the same. In dream also we become haggard. Here also we become haggard. Everything is changing. This is the Prasiddhenaya Vahetuna. So whatever I experience, when I experience, it is there. When I do not experience, then that doesn't even exist so far as I am concerned. Therefore, there is no difference whether we experience a dream or experience waking or experience deep sleep. They are absolutely of the same value. They are changing. Anything that is changing is Mithya, partially real as I said. But I who experience all this, that is the only one. If you understood this, then another reason is given in the sixth verse. आदव अन्तेचे यन्नास्ति वर्तमानेपि तत्तत्ः पितधैः सद्रुषाः संतः अवितथाः इवलक्षिताः That which does not exist in the beginning and the end is equally so in the middle in the present. Though they are on the same footing with the unreal, yet they are seen as though real. What does it mean? Supposing a baby is born. Before the birth of the baby, baby doesn't exist. And after the death of the person, maybe babyhood or youth or middle age or old age, that person dies. And the baby's existence as a person is only maybe few seconds, few hours, few days, few years. It doesn't really matter. So the baby was not there. We do not experience before birth. We do not experience same person after death. In the middle, we experience. So whatever was not there at the beginning, whatever will not be there after the end, in between whatever appearance, we have to take it as nil. It's a marvelous, deep statement. We have to ponder upon it. All these verses are not merely logical verses to be understood intellectually. But these are stark naked truths that we are experiencing every day of our life. That is what we need to bring into. This is not mere statements. These are marvelous truths we have to bring. Then should we become depressed? No. Enjoy them as I said temporarily as you enjoy a drama or a cinema. Enjoy it. यत् आदव् अन्तेच न यत् आदव् That which at the beginning, अन्तेच, at the end, न अस्ति That which is not, doesn't exist. वर्तमानेपे Even at the present time, तत् तथ न विद्यते न वर्तते न आस्ति That doesn't exist even though we are experiencing it. And the funny part of it is the experiencing instrument is also changing. A baby experiences something and at any stage of our life, we experience something. They are all temporary. Whatever is temporary is not permanent. That is the meaning of it. पितथाई सद्रुशाह संतः अवितथाई वलक्षिताः पितथा That means they do not remain the same. Whatever doesn't remain the same, whatever is beyond past, present and future, that is defined as real. And त्रिकाल अबाधितम् सत्यम् But what do we do in our experience? पितथाई सद्रुशाह संतः Whatever we are experiencing in the waking dream as well as the dreamless state, they are all unreal really. Because whatever is changing should never be considered as real. And as I mentioned, and I will mention again and again, reality means what? That means temporarily it is there, permanently it is not there. So that which is temporary, to consider it as permanent, that is called विद्य, that is called माय, that is called ignorance, that is the cause of bondage. What is the cause of bondage? I will give one or two examples. Suppose you are lucky enough to get a very nice sweet, enjoy it, but if it is not there, then also you should not be depressed. That means you should not become a slave. I want that sweet again. If I get, it will make me happy. If I don't get, I will not be happy. Now who is the master? The sweet is the master. I will make you happy when it comes. When it doesn't come, from a distance it taunts. I will not come to you. I will make you. Yes, yes, yes, I am your slave. Pujur, whatever you want to make me happy or suffering, is all your grace. You should not say to this sweet. You say if you come, it's okay, fine, but if you don't come, that is also okay, that is also fine. So this is what Sri Ramakrishna says, continuously discriminate. This is the third commandment of Sri Ramakrishna, so to say, or fourth commandment, constantly exercise discrimination. What is it? Everything is temporary. God alone is permanent. Here God means you, the witness, the Atman, that alone is permanent. You are there experiencing the waking. You are there experiencing the dream. You are there experiencing the deep sleep. Again you are there coming back to the waking state. You are not changing. The experiencer is not changing, but the experiencer is changing. Don't bring in the argument, but I have become old. I've been practicing it. No, what has become old is the body. You are experiencing your body also. You are experiencing your mind also. So whatever you are experiencing, that is not you. Yes, I experienced myself as a baby, so I am not the baby. I experienced myself as a young man, and so I am not the young man. I am not the middle-aged man. I am not the old-aged man. Similarly, you continue, I will not be the born person. I will not be the dead person also. Interesting thing is, we do not take cognizance of our birth as well as our death. Somebody else will cognize it, not ourselves, but it will not be difficult to imagine because we see other babies, we see other dead people also. Extend the same knowledge to ourselves also. So everything that we see, temporarily they are real, but they are unreal. Why? Because of Agnana, they are permanent. We think, but really speaking, you know what happens? We also know. When a person says, I am old, he knows I was young. A person, I changed, I became aged, I cannot enjoy life, I cannot sleep, I cannot act, I cannot jump, I cannot do sport, all those things, but still there is that overpowering sense of reality. This is all real. So if it is unreal, nobody really minds it. I give you several examples, but I will give you any number of times. You are a young man, supposing a young man falls in love with a young woman and he will ask, because he has fallen in love, the other person also has to reciprocate. So the young man asks, do you love me? And the other young woman will definitely, perhaps, will say, yes, I love you. How much do you love me? Oh, just one finger measurement, that much only I love you. There itself 90% of the appointment will disappear. That means 90% disappointment will come. How long will you love me? Maybe for five seconds I will love you. Now it should be complete 100%. But what does this stupid fellow think? That I love her, and how long will you love her? Do you love her when you are in deep sleep? Do you love when you are working deeply in your computer department? Do you love her when you are eating first class masala dosha, which thought is permanent? Your wife or your beloved or that masala dosha. You look at your experience. Only few fleeting seconds the person pays attention to that person and the feeling will come, yes, yes, I love you, I love you. Same thing in the other side also. So there is nothing to regret. What is telling? We are caught in the net of the so-called mithya, maya. Maya means taking unreal as the real is called maya. This is called avitathahivalakshatah. So we will have to consider that whatever is temporarily existing is maya and then we have to be very careful about this. So what is the reason given? Because whatever is experienced is not me because I am separate. What is the second thing? Every experienced event is changing. Every experienced object is changing. Taking as a whole all the experiences are categorized into three classes. The waking state, the dream state and the dreamless state. What is the dream? What are these states? Everything I experience in the waking state because I am the experiencer, I do not change. But whatever I experience is changing and then it depends upon me and then whatever depends upon me for its very existence and when I do not think of something, when I think of something, it exists. When I am not thinking of that same thing, it doesn't exist at all. So such a thing which exists for some time doesn't exist at other times is what Boudhapada is calling Vitathaha. That is not real. Tatha means exactly as it is. Vitatha means not like that. It is changing. Vitathaha, that is the word that has been used. Everything has a temporary existence and when we are having waking, that is temporary. When we are having dream, that is also temporary. When we are experiencing deep sleep, that is temporary. This is everything. When we are experiencing that particular state, all those experiences are temporary. But there is another temporariness. So when we are experiencing waking, dream and deep sleep are not real. When we experience dream, waking and deep sleep are unreal. When we are in deep sleep, both waking and dream are... So compared to each other, all these states are completely unreal. So on which state are you going to rely on yourself and think what is real? You alone is real. This is beautifully illustrated through the story of Janaka Maharaja which I narrated. He had a bad dream. Some enemy king had chased him out of his own kingdom. He was very hungry. After running continuously for one and a half days, and then he reached the kingdom of the other king. He was perhaps friendly and he was ravenously hungry. He reached a village where food was being distributed. When his turn came, only that burnt something was given. Then even that he was prepared to eat and then suddenly a big bird came, knocked the whole dhonya, we call it, leaf plate from his hands and it became inedible and he was lamenting. Suddenly he woke up and he started asking, What is the real thing? Was the dream real? Was I in the dream real? Am I in this waking state real? Three days he was in that so-called what people call mad state. Then one Ashtavakra supposed to have come and he was asked, he said, Okay, neither dream is real nor waking is real and by implication even deep sleep is not real but you, the witness, the experiencer, alone is the real. So there is a beautiful book by Shankaracharya. This is called Aparoksha Anubhuti, the Realization of the Supreme and there he gives a few similes as an examples of how we experience something but really what we experience is not real. For example, blue sky. Sky has no color at all but it appears as blue, as red depending upon the sun's rays, etc., etc. Then we are experiencing any part of the world, we are sitting in our rooms and we think the earth is stationary. This is known to every one of us. The earth is rotating at mind-boggling speed both around itself and around the sun also but we, do we think that I am whirling around? We never do that. Then the sun appears to be going around the earth and then the sun appears to be very small inside. Really speaking, mind-boggling, all these appear to us. You see that also, see what fun it is. Early in the morning when you see the rising sun, it is too big. As it rises into the mid-sky, it becomes smaller and smaller and in the evening again it becomes bigger and bigger and then you say this is one type of what is called temporary illusion. Then another type. So I get up and then I say, what if somebody asks me from America, what is the time? Oh, this is here 6.30. Just now the sun is rising. I say the rise of the morning rising sun and you ask what is your time? He says, oh here it is early evening or early night. Why? You are talking, you are speaking untruth. This is early morning. Why are you telling it is early evening? But this is also one type of illusion. So going by logic, all the states are objects of experience. They differ from each other and they are temporary. They depend upon me and therefore they are all Mithya. So what is the definition of Mithya? Remember, we have already discussed this. This is only to impress upon us. Whatever is experienced is Mithya and the experiencer, the subject, he is alone, the Atman alone is Satya. So this is the definition. This is the definition of Advaita Vedanta. This is the definition of Gaudapada Acharya as well as Shankaracharya and many others. Now some objectors will come and they raise some objections. Why should we take your definition of reality? We don't accept. We have got certain criteria to determine what is reality. Very interesting. As I mentioned earlier, these are called Purvapakshi or opponents. But what is important is the Purvapakshi is not another Pakshi which is flying in the sky. Purvapakshi, for an unthinking person, there is no bird at all in the mind. But for a deep thinker, how can I believe the scriptural statements? Because there are certain criteria. What is the criteria? When I am experiencing something, somebody is beating me, I am experiencing pain, that is a utility and you come and tell it is all unreal. It is a complete misunderstanding. So you don't compare what happens in the dream with the waking state. This is the first thinking of the opponent. Dream is we all accept. Everybody accepts. Dream is unreal and it lasts only for one and a half minutes and every dream is succeeded by a completely different dream and whatever we do in the dream is unreal. For example, I am very hungry and I eat in dream and my stomach is full but when I wake up, I may be ravenously hungry so my eating in the dream is completely nullified and therefore waking alone is real and dream is unreal. This is also a very flawed outer logic. For that, Godfather says, and this is by the way, it is called prayojanatha, utility and that is very very useful in our day-to-day life. Waking state is very useful. Dream state, everything is mithya. It is no use. For example, if I win a lottery ticket in the dream and that is complete nonsense. When I wake up, I don't check my bank balance. I know it is completely unreal but for this, Godfather also has to give. So what is this utility? For that briefly, we will come a little into some more explanation. What is the answer? Godfather says, you are too stupid. You don't have the thinking power. When you are experiencing something in the dream state, so long as the dream state continues, that is complete utility there. Dream hunger is completely satisfied with the dream food. Dream thirst is quenched by dream drink and dream rest completely gives you satisfaction to the dream strain that you experience as if you run five miles and had come and sat down in your sofa and you are taking very fast breaths and all those things are useful. So dream experiences of becoming hungry, thirsty, etc. can be quenched, removed by dream objects and there is utility there. Similarly, you come to the waking state. What is your objection? Here I can eat and drink. Supposing you eat fully in the waking state, go to bed and you get a dream where you are ravenously hungry. So this waking state eating, has it satisfied you? No. Waking state experiences are relevant only in the waking state. Dream experiences, dream events are relevant only in the dream state. Don't bring in this stupid kind of argument. And Bhagawan Ramana Maharshi has also given this same thing. What is the second objection that he gives? That there is a continuity. This is what he says. So what is the continuity? When you are in the dream state, you experience for a minute that it is for several years you lived in UK or in America and then after one and a half minutes you wake up and say what a dream I had. So perhaps I had a desire and I dreamt several years I had lived in that country. The whole thing lasted. So this is not correct. You are comparing dream measurement of the time with this one. But that is not the real objection. Real objection. After one and a half minutes, you just wake up briefly or may not and then again have another dream in which you are in Bangalore and you are eating empty or something or you are quarreling with your neighbor etc. etc. So this is another dream. And after one minute or half minute, you have totally different. What is the point that each dream is totally different from the other dreams. Therefore, this is one of the arguments. What is the argument? But there is no continuity. Whereas in the waking state, I go to dream, I wake up in the same house, I go to dream when I am 25 and I come back same after a few minutes and I am still 25 years old. My parents are there. So the past was past. That is what we study in the history. The future will be future. The present will be present. The whole world is there. Even when I go to dream state and dream, even when I am not experiencing the waking state, the waking state is still continuing and when I come back, I come to the same waking state. So continuation is one of the arguments or objections of the Purva Paksha. Whereas in the dream, that generally doesn't happen. For that, Gaudapada says, this is no argument. What is the argument? Whatever is continuously changing, you cannot depend upon it. And even you in the waking state, maybe your parents are there. They are also aging. You are also aging. Your house also is becoming old and your job is also changing. Your bank balance is changing and above all, your state of happiness and unhappiness are continuously undergoing a change and that which is continuously changing cannot be a criteria even if it seems to be continuing also. Further, he gives another example. Supposing somebody, a rare person, supposing he has exactly the same dream like the waking state and then he will get confused. So who am I? Am I the dream king or am I the poor person in the waking state or as the Janaka Maharaja, am I the emperor of this Mithila in the waking state and am I the fugitive who is running away from my enemy in the dream? You get confused. If the same thing continues, the point here is not only what is experienced but continuous change. That is what he says. Whatever is not in the beginning, whatever is not in the end and whatever appears to be in the middle, that is the correct theory that that doesn't really exist because reality can never change. That is what we are all seeking consciously or unconsciously. This is the second type of arguments. What is the third type of arguments? Say in the waking state, we have what is called two types of experience. We all know, I for example, I am thinking about a tree. I see a tree. I am thinking a tree. Where is the tree? Outside. Suppose I am thinking this tree is a beautiful tree. It is an ugly tree. The fruits are very untasteful, are very tasteful. So my thinking is inside but the object of my thinking is outside. So whatever I am thinking inside my mind is only an imagination but whatever is there outside, that is absolutely. But what happens in the dream state? Because the dream happens when a person closes his eyes and then forgets the body and then dream state occurs. Purely an imagination of the mind and therefore it is unreal and then Gaudapada laughs at the stupid fellow and he says that also indicates your stupidity, your inability to think. When you are experiencing dreams, supposing you are seeing a tree in your dreams exactly as you are doing in the waking state, you are also doing in the dream state. For example, you are seeing a tree. In the dream I come and ask you what are you looking at? So I am looking at the tree and then inside my mind I am creating all sorts of thoughts about this tree and they are nothing but imaginations. I don't know anything about this tree but what I am imagining inside my mind is unreal but the tree that I see outside is very real. That would be your reply. Exactly it is the same experience in the waking state also. What we think inside our mind, inside the body is unreal. What I experience outside the body is real. Same thing happens in waking state also. This is another type of objection will be there. So these are some of the objections that the opponent raises. As I said these objectors are not any other persons but people like us who do not think deeply and they have the same doubts within ourselves. That is what the same thing is waking state and dream state and deep sleep state. I am experiencing and whatever I experience is not me and this is conclusively proved. Where is it conclusively proved? Everyday experience conclusively proved. I see a tree. Do I say I am the tree? Never. I smell something. Do I say I am the smell? No. So whatever object I see, I see a horse, I see an elephant, I see a cloud, I see a lake, I never say I am the cloud, I am the lake, I am the donkey, I am the horse, I am the dog etc. Similarly but when it comes to body because of the long association I am the body at the same time I have a body. Both these ideas play continuously. We have to keep our mind on this and say I have a body that is correct but I am the body is not correct and if you go still inside I am happy. Happiness is a thought in the mind. I am very unhappy. That very unhappiness is another thought in the mind. Since I experience both this the experiencer that is the object of my experience that is the mind antah karana the thoughts that are there belong to that mind. Earlier I told you if a fragrant rose if a rose has fragrance that fragrance belongs to the rose since I am not the rose the fragrance also is not me that belongs to me. So I am not the mind so the happy thought that arises in the mind is not me. Similarly a suffering thought I am suffering is also a thought in the mind. I should never say I am suffering. I should say there is a happy thought there is an unhappy thought that is that I have to experience more with my witnessing state that is the one says. This the answer briefly he gives. First of all the objection about utility Their utility that is the utility of the experiences is a contradicted injury. Therefore from the fact of they are having a beginning and an end they are rightly held to be unreal. That is what he is telling. In the waking state many things are useful for us good for good or bad. When you say they are useful don't have this wrong idea everything is in our favor only. Suppose there is a stick and you see a snake or a scorpion the stick is very useful in beating the either snake or the scorpion or a dog and in protecting ourselves. But the same stick that is why once Swami used to say so never if you see a wicked fellow a strong fellow coming to beat you without any stick don't go to protect yourself with a stick because what you know what he does he will take that stick from you because you are very weak the moment you lift the stick he will simply give you a slap snatch away the stick and that very stick he will use to beat you up. So it's a funny way of playing everything can give positive as well as negative experiences there is no doubt about it. Don't say everything is useful. Yes everything is useful but every useful thing need not bring positive experiences only they can also bring negative experiences that is very important for us to understand. This is what is being told whatever experiences we have in the waking state there is some utility either for myself to beat the enemy or for the enemy to beat me there is a utility but this utility is not seen in dream. I gave the example though the answer that is to say that that everything is changing both in the waking and in the dream. I also gave you the example how Godfather counters this objection that things are not experiences are not having utility character in the dream and that is the conclusion of an unthinking shallow thinking person just as the waking state experiences have utility in the waking state dream state experiences also have utility in the dream state. Don't compare dream state experiences and say they are not useful in the waking state similarly don't take the waking state experiences and say they are not useful in the dream state. This is what Bhagwan Ramana Maharshi says so dream food satisfies the dream hunger and waking state food satisfies the waking state hunger. You should never confuse both. What is the comparison between these two? The comparison is both you are happy and unhappy in the waking and equally you are happy and unhappy in the dream. What is the significance? We have to understand what is the significance that is you can't say I am completely happy because if you are always happy you will not know what is happiness. If you are completely suffering all the time you will not know what is. So I am happy and it should be replaced by unhappiness and then I know it is unhappiness and it should be replaced by happiness and it should be replaced by unhappiness. This continuous opposite experiences must continue even to know that I am either happy or unhappy I am hungry or not hungry thirsty or not thirsty troubled or not troubled the exactly the same thing is experiences are reported in the waking state also. So don't bring it. With this the what is called dreams are not useful that is utility factor is not there is completely squashed. Now comes in the karika number eight another objection अपूर्वं स्थानि धर्मोहे यथा स्वर्ग निवासिनां तानयं प्रेक्षते गत्वा यथै वयह सुशिक्षितः It is again another very deeply thoughtful objection. This is the objection given by the opponent. What is it? Sometimes we have some special dream experience. This is called unique experience. What is this unique experience? Suppose you went to heaven in your dream. In your dream you went to heaven and how do you find yourself? You don't find the same ugly old person and full of spots on the body. As soon as you enter into the heaven you will become one of the dwellers of the heaven. Your body will be young shining because it is always 18. It doesn't age. That is the understanding of Svarga Loka. Nobody is born in Svarga Loka. Nobody dies in Svarga Loka. Nobody ages in Svarga Loka. That is why I said here Jara and Mrukyu do not trouble people. That is what is indicated in the Kata Upanishad by Yamadharma Raja while tempting Nachiketa. That means a person just as if you go into the first class hotel and you are there, you enter there and you stay there for a day or for two days, three days and you enjoy these things. Only everything is given at your beck and call. People will serve you at your favorite food etc. Of course depending upon the punyam that you pay, that means the credit card that you have and after three days again you come back. You are not born in the hotel. You don't die in the hotel. Don't take it literally. I mean I'm giving the example. That's all. So nobody is born in Svarga Loka. Nobody dies in Svarga Loka. They just enter into this Svarga Loka and they never age as exactly 18 years. 18 years means not 18 years. 18 years means a beautiful, very healthy, ideal young person, man or woman capable of squeezing the maximum possible happiness. Only youth can do that. Same thing you will get it. But unlike the Bhu Loka, there continuous enjoyment will be there. That is the only thing and if you go to hell then continuous suffering will be there. But so long as we are in the heavenly world then only one type of experience will be there until our punya is exhausted then we are king. Suppose you have such kind of dream then you experience Svarga just as the other inhabitants of this Svarga experience it. This is the type of dream you have. Like he gives an example. Suppose you go into a museum and you are well educated to appreciate the events in the history and when you see so many artifacts you will be able to recollect and enjoy it. Just like that when you obtain punya you go to Svarga Loka and only you will enjoy them so long as you are there. A person without punya cannot go there. This is the beautiful example which we will continue in our next class.