Mandukya Karika Lecture 065 on 24 August 2022

Full Transcript (Not Corrected)

From the eighth mantra onwards in this Mandukya Upanishad, we are directed how we can realize that I am Brahman, I am Atma Brahma. For this, Upasana has been prescribed. Upasana means, Upa means near, Asana means the object towards which we are supposed to move closer and nearer and finally eliminate any differentiation between me and the object of my meditation. For this purpose, as described earlier, until mantra seventh, Mandukya Upanishad is telling Omkara is everything, Brahman is everything and you are that Brahman. Omkara has got four syllables and Atma has got four states. We should not take the four states literally. That is three circumscribed limited states, waking, dreaming and sleeping. But that which is unlimited is Brahman, called also Turiyam. So how can I realize it? Through Omkara Sadhana. I, who am thinking, I am the limited Self in the form of, I am the Vishwa and Virat, Taijasa and Hiranyagarbha, Prajna and Ishwara. All these three states, all these identifications are limited in comparison with the infinite. However big a state may be compared to other states, it is still limited only. And limitation, another name for limitation is bondage, Bandhana. We want to be completely free. So what should we do? Well, start travelling from the gross to the subtle, from the subtle to the causal, and then go beyond all these, even the causal, until we reach the cause of every other cause called Mahakarana, which is Brahman. How do we do that? You merge Vishwa in Virat. Virat is to be merged in Taijasa and Hiranyagarbha. And Hiranyagarbha has to be merged in Prajna as well as Ishwara. And then one mentation remains, vritti remains, Aham Brahma Asmi, called Brahmakara vritti. This is the process. For that purpose, as I said earlier, Upasana requires three beings. The person who is doing Upasana and the object which the person wants to attain and an Alambana, a support. For example, if somebody wants to feel I am Vishnu, at the beginning he is the Jivatma, Salagrama is the Adhara, support, and Vishnu is the goal. So this Alambanam, the support, is superimposed. You are not merely a small stone. You are Vishnu itself. And some similarities have to be found. That is also very important. What is the similarity? The stone will be round. Round means that it is all-pervading. A roundness, the shape roundness or a circle is a complete circle. That means it is any point in a circle. It is a beginning point and also an end point. These are all just exercises in sophisticated imaginations. Similarly, if a small Shiva Linga is taken, Linga, the very meaning of the word Linga, Lingyate iti Lingaha, that which points out like an arrow that walks this way, like plus, like minus. It is a symbol. Symbol of the all-pervadingness. Shiva is everything. Shiva is everywhere. So to indicate that, the Shiva Linga makes. So also any other type of Alambanam or support. Now mantra number eight gives a broad outline saying that you will have to equate the four Padas of the Omkara with the four states of the Atman. What are the four parts of the Omkara, four syllables of the Omkara? Om, if we say, really we have to say Om. A, O, M and that silent called Amatra, sometimes called Ardhamatra. When we close our lips, the sound for some time continues. As Sri Ramakrishna says, when you strike a gong for some time, after striking, it goes on reverberating. And then Om, Gong, Om, Om, Om, Om, Om. It merges in silence. So that fourth one is called technically Ardhamatra or Amatra. That means it is not really a part. Similarly, waking, Jagrat, Swapna, Sushupti are clearly experienced. But that which is called Turiyam, even though we are experiencing it, we are not experiencing it directly as Turiyam. We are as if putting a barrier in between ourselves and Turiyam. One barrier is very gross barrier called the waking state. Another is much subtler barrier called the dream state. Another is very fine, refined barrier which is called the causal state. But we slowly move from the gross to the subtle to the causal. Then we acquire the capacity to think of ourselves as something beyond these, even the cause. And when we go beyond this cause, there will be no cause and effect relationship at all. This is the essence of the mantra, Eighth. So practicing this meditation will make us get ready for identity with Turiyam. One important point here, so we cannot do Upasanam of the fourth state, neither Ardha Matra nor Turiyam cannot be equated through thought. We can only go up to the causal state. And then what happens? Something happens, something breaks or something is pulled out like the pole vault. It pushes the person over and beyond the net and itself falls back. So that point of separation of the pole vaulter from the pole, that is from the causal state to the Mahakarana which is beyond the cause, then cause and effect, experiencer and experienced, everything becomes completely merged. That is indicated in the mantra number eight. The point is we can only make efforts to come to merge ourselves in the causal state. After that, it is only what Shri Ramakrishna calls mother's grace. She only has to cut that bondage. Nothing can be done. So this is what is the meaning. Swayam Atma Adhyaksharam Omkarah Adhimatram Pada Matra Matrashya Pada Akar Avakaro Makaraiti The Atman is divided into four parts. The what is called waking state, dream state, dreamless state and for the sake of only hinting, the fourth state called Duriyam is indicated. Similarly, Omkara has got four syllables A, O, M and beyond that what happens? We have to only come up to the M. After that something happens. That is an important point. Only by God's grace. But it will happen when we reach that particular causal state. With that, we have been discussing the mantra nine. Jagarita sthana. First is what? Akara and waking state. Waking state is a state of experience with external world. Body means ten sense organs. Five of knowledge, five of action plus mind plus reflected consciousness called Chidabhasa. This is the Jagarita sthana. And here the mantra, we have to specially take note. When we say Vishwa, it is from the individual point of view. The entire waking state and the waker as the universal waker called Vaishwanara has to be understood. That is why so much of morality is imposed upon us. What is morality? I identify myself not only with this body-mind but with everything that is existing. That is called morality. And identifying means loving. Loving means becoming one. These are important concepts we have to keep in mind. So the person who thinks I am the waker is called Vishwa and the universal aspect is Vaishwanara. So mantra nine is telling how to identify, do Upasana. First take Akara, take Vaishwanara, take the waking state and then mix them up. And when we say Akara, Akara cannot stand without Omkara. You have to remember, you can't take a knife and cut Akara, Omkara. It is only for the sake of intellectual contemplation. That we have to, what is called knowledge wise, understanding wise, thought wise, cognition wise. We have to separate as it were and identify. Yagarithisthanaha means waking state. Vaishwanaraha, the person who experiences I am the whole universe is called Vaishwanara. And then from the Omkara, take the first Akara, Prathama Matra, first Matra of Omkara. And then practice Upasana. These two are one and the same. And I said Alambanam. What is the Alambanam? Akara and it must have some similarities, I said. What are the similarities? Aaptehe Adi Matwat. Akara is the beginning, whether a mosquito hums or a human being speaks, Gods speak, let any sound come. Every sound starts with Akara only. Why? Because sounds come only from the sound box. And when the air passes, begins to pass through the sound box. The very first modification of nameless air becomes audible A. That is the Adi Matwam. And this Akara, we have to understand, it is absolutely logical. That is the foundation. That is in every letter. You say Um. There is also Akara only becomes Vukara plus that means Omkara, Okara. Okara, when it progresses further in the sound box, ends up when the lips are closed as Omkara. So Akara, Okara, Makara is absolutely same. Modification of Akara. So this Akara is everywhere. And Jagrat Sthana, waking state, it is the beginning state. It is the most realistic state. When we go to Swapna, it is real only when we are experiencing it, but it is for a very short time. When we go into sleep state, even subtler state, we have an experience, but it is so condensed, we cannot really understand. But whether it is dream state, whether it is sleeping state, can be analyzed only in the waking state. You cannot analyze waking state either in dream state or in, of course, no question of analyzing in sleep state. So it is, that is why this is the foundation. This is the beginning. So it is this waking state that is the foundation of both the dream as well as sleeping experience. Simple example I am giving, you will have to think and then add your own examples. For example, when you are terribly tired and you have done something very good, read good books, met good people and did good deeds, then your dreams are likely to be because they are the only memories of what we have done in the waking state. So you will have very peaceful dream. And if you have worked hard, then you will have very restful sleep. That is why waking state is the foundation of Sadhana. You can't do Sadhana either in dream state or dreamless state. Dreamless state, the question of doing Sadhana doesn't arise. But the remnants of the waking state can work. For example, you may dream, I am sitting in a temple, I went to a temple, Belur Math, and then I sat there, I was doing my Japam, but that depends upon what you actually did in your waking state. That is why these two have to be meditated as one. Akara and waking state, and the experiencer of the waking state, not merely as the individual, but the universal called Vaishvanara. So you see waking state, Vaishvanara and Akara. What are the similarities? So waking state is the foundation, Akara is the foundation. Waking state continues both in the dream state, dreamless state. Akara continues in Okara and Makara, that is the foundation. Adi Matva, Adi means beginning, beginning means foundation. Aptehi means Vyakti, Vyakti means all-pervading. So this is the process, this is how we have to do. Akara is everything, Akara is the beginning, Akara is everything. Waking state is the beginning of the other states, including Brahma Prapti after Sadhana. And waking state pervades the dream state, pervades also the dreamless state. And then finally, it is what we do in the Sadhana, we do in the waking state that will kick us, so that we become one with Brahma. These two, beginning and all-pervasiveness, these are what is called Samat Samanatvam, both with the Akara as well as the Vaishvanara. That is how we have to do. Then what do we get? Sarvan Kaman, Adischa Bhavati. What happens first? Because I identify myself with everybody in the Vaishvanara, for example, then what happens? All enjoyers are me, all sufferers are also me, all worldly people are me, all Sadhakas are also me. He becomes identified with the entire universe. That is the meaning of Vaishvanara, Vishvanara, Vaishvanara. And then, because it is the foundational state, what is the thing? If anybody is eating a sweet as good as my eating, say Ramakrishna says, my mother showed me, are you not eating through every mouth? This is an example we have to keep when we are doing this Upasana. And then what is the result? Adischa. Because Akara is beginning, waking is the foundation, then this person will be honoured, will be respected wherever he goes. Everybody will notice that person. Just as if there is a 50,000 watt bulb among 50,000 100 watt bulbs, which attracts our attention, only the 50,000 watt bulb, like that this person, without any effort, automatically he will be considered as the first and best person in the whole world. Now, this is called Fala of the Upasana. Fala means the results. But here also, results are divided into two categories. The first category is that those who do for the sake of worldliness, Sakama, they will get these two. What is it? That this person, he will attain, he will be enjoying everything. And at the same time, he will be respected. But if a person says, I don't want these small results. I don't want to be considered as the first person. Then the result will be, he will be moving. It would be easier for him to move to the next stage of Upasana. But those who have got Sakama, I want to enjoy everything. I want to be respected by everybody as the best person. He will get it. But he will be stuck there. He will not move forward. So two results depending upon what the person wants. Does he want worldly happiness or does he want spiritual happiness? So these are the results. So we said Akara is equated with waking state. Vekar here means Vaishvanara. And because Akara is the beginning of all the sounds and it pervades all sounds, so this person, this waking state is the beginning state, the very first state, grossest state. All our Sadhana, all our Dharma, Adharma, everything starts only in the waking state. This is the essence of Ninth Mantra. He who is the Vaishvanara, having for its sphere of activity the waking state, is Akara, the first letter of Aum, on account of its all-pervadingness or on account of being the first, these being the common features of both waking state as well as Akara, one who practices this Upasana attains to the fulfilment of all desires at the same time. If thousand people are eating, enjoying, he will be enjoying. If thousand people are enjoying thousand different things through the five sense organs, this person gets the Ananda. Now do not get carried away by misunderstanding. Whether you are hearing music, whether you are seeing a beautiful scenery or a beautiful person, whether you are listening to beautiful music, whether you are smelling the most pleasing fragrance or whether you are tasting the best thing in this whole world or touching something very pleasant, the end result is Ananda. So he will get the Ananda, combined Ananda. He doesn't need to know. In fact, we also don't need to know whether I am eating this sweet or that sweet. All that we want to know is, if I eat this sweet, will I be happier? If I eat that sweet, will I be happier? That is all we come to know. So the attainment of combined Ananda of everybody in this world at the same moment, not at different times and for all the 24 hours, for all time, that is the result. So if you have understood, we have understood this. So because of these two common features, pervasion and primacy, we have to meditate on Akara as Vaishvanara. So now we are going to the 10th mantra. If you have understood the 9th mantra, the process is exactly the same. We do not need to go through too many details. That's why I will move very quickly. So here also, if a person wants worldly Sakama, worldly desires, he will get his desires fulfilled. The mantra is going to tell us what result he will get of this particular Upasana of what? Of Okara, not Omkara, Okara, Akara, Okara, Makara. Second, that is Akara, when it progresses to the middle of the sound box, throat, it becomes Okara. So the person enjoys. Okara has to be equated and the waker has to equate now with what? With the dream state, Swapna Avastha. And the identifier, that I am the dreamer, individually is called Taijasa, but we are talking only about universal, cosmic person, so here Hiranyagarbha. So Hiranyagarbha as well as this Okara, they have certain similarities. Two similarities are again posited here, like beginning as well as all-pervasiveness in the ninth mantra. And if anybody who does successfully this Upasana, he will get two results. This is what we are going to see now, but the process is exactly the same. That's why I have taken so much of time. Swapna Stanaha, the second Upasana, is with regard to the Swapna Stanaha and Taijasa. Taijasa is the person, but here, just like in the ninth mantra, instead of saying Vishwa, he said Vaishvanara, here even though we have not used Taijasa, but we have to understand it as Hiranyagarbha. Swapna Stanaha, Hiranyagarbha. And what is that mantra? Ukara. I said Okara, but here Akara becomes Ukara. When A plus U becomes, according to Savarnadirgasandhi of Sanskrit grammar, it becomes O. And when it joins Makara, it becomes Om. So here Ukara is the Vitiya Matra of the Omkara. This is how we have to equate. And then, what are the Alambanam? What are the similarities? Utkarshaat ubhayatvaat va utkarshati havey. So, Utkarsha means superior to... Ukara is superior to Akara. And then Ukara is also Gnanasantati, ubhayatvaat. So this Ukara is both Akara as well as Ukara. This Swapna contains both the waking as well as the dreaming. Because what is dreaming? You take the foundation of experiences of the waking state and you take that stock and mix it in any way you like. That is what we call a dream. Utkarshaat ubhayatvaat. So what happens? Utkarshati. If a person successfully becomes a Siddhi, attains Siddhi in this particular Upasana of equating Ukara with the dream state as Hiranyagarbha, what are the common factors? Ubhayatvaat. So Swapna is a combination of waking and dreaming. Similarly here, the Vaishvanara is nothing but... the subtle part of Vaishvanara is called Hiranyagarbha. And so Hiranyagarbha is far superior because he is subtler. Ukara is subtler than Akara. And Hiranyagarbha is subtler than Vaishvanara. And Utkarsha is superior and represents both. Both the waking and dreamer represents both the waker and dreamer. Similarly, Hiranyagarbha represents within himself, he is both Hiranyagarbha and also Vaishvanara. And Hiranyagarbha being subtler, Swapna being subtler, because you have got so much more freedom. I will come to that point in a minute. So these are two qualities, as if both these contain two qualities, that is Ukara contains two qualities, it is superior and it also contains Akara. The dream also is superior to the waking state. It also contains what is called superior to the waking state. And anybody who does this Upasana, what does he get? Gnana Santatim Samanascha Bhavati. So he becomes first of all Gnana Santatim, superior knowledge, Samanascha Bhavati. That means he will be equivalent to anybody in this world. This is the first result. What is the second result? Asya Kule Na Abramavit Bhavati. In his family, a person who succeeds in this Upasana, in his family, a stupid fellow, an ignorant person will not be born at all. Ya Evam Veda means, here Yeha means Upasaka, Evam in this manner, Veda means knows. Literal meaning is he knows. The real meaning is he who performs this Upasana. That is the meaning. What happens? Here also, two results will come. From the Sakama Purali point of view, he will be having superior knowledge, wisdom. And at the same time, there will be nobody to whom he will be inferior. He will be equivalent, if not superior to everybody in this world. That is the first result. Second result is, if he is a householder and in his family, there will never be a son or a daughter who will not be a Brahma with a knower of Brahman. If he is a Guru, then if he has got desires, his disciples will be, all of them, irrespective of what they are, they will become knowers of Brahman. If this Upasana is done with a lower attitude, but if it is done with a higher attitude, he says, I don't want these results. What do you want? I want to become one with Ishwara, the next stage, the causal stage. Because Ishwara is nearer to Nirguna Brahma. Hiranyagarbha is nearer than Vaishvanara to Ishwara. Ishwara is nearer to Nirguna Brahma than Hiranyagarbha or Vaishvanara. Subtlest, causal. And once the person goes beyond cause, there is nothing for him to think about it. So, the simple, plain English myth, Taijasa, whose sphere of activity is the dreaming state, if he does Upasana with Ukara, the second letter of Aum, and this Ukara is superior to Akara, or on account of being in between these two. What is in between these two? In between means in between Akara and Makara. And Hiranyagarbha is in between Vaishvanara and Ishwara. He who knows this attains to a superior knowledge, Gnanasantati, and is treated as equal. Even the greatest pundit says, you are also just like me and I am not superior to you at all. This is the first result, both, or you can even say this is the second result. First result is superior knowledge. Second result is, he is equally treated by everybody. Why? Because he has got superior knowledge. And third, he finds that no one in his life, if he is a householder, his children also will be spiritual people. If he is a Guru, all his disciples will be worthy disciples. So these equations have come in the tenth mantra, Upasana has to be done. Now I want to just say, in what way the dream state is superior? Of course, Ukara is higher in the sound box level, and so it is in between also. It is naturally, it has become transformed into Ukara. A plus U becomes O actually. That is why we pronounce it A-U-M when we split, but when we pronounce, we say OM. Ukara contains these two. That is what he wants to say. The dream state contains both dream state as well as waking state, but it is much superior. Why is it much superior? Because supposing you want to travel from Bangalore to Chennai, Bangalore to Kashi to see me. In the waking state, you have to do, you have to buy a ticket, you have to spend money, and it will take, if you are coming by plane, very costly, at least five hours from home to home. If you are coming by train, it will take maybe 36 hours, not exactly, I don't know, but it will take longer time, and you have to go through so many experiences in the compartment, etc. But in the dream state, how much time it will take for you to reach Chennai or Kashi? In a twinkling of a second, you are able to reach, and without spending money, without wasting energy, and in the shortest time that is possible. Just you think, you will be in Chennai, in Mars, in America, anywhere. This is why the Swapna state is much, much superior state. In fact, where are your memories stored of your physical experiences? Only in this state. And where are all your creative ideas come? They come only from this state. That is why it is considered to be far superior, Utkarsha. Utkarsha means superior. So that is what we have to understand. And he who can do this Upasana, that is equating Vakara, equating Swapna sthana with Hiranyagarbha, they are the same. So Omkara is equated with Turiyam or Brahman. And what is the result? He will have superior knowledge. He will be equal to anybody in this world. He will never be inferior to anybody. And all his followers, all his disciples, all his children, nobody, no ignorant person will ever be born in that family. I hope it is very clear about it. Now we will go to the Mantra 11. And same process, that is why I have gone so much in details in the Mantra 8 and 9, going into details about Upasana, etc. But once we understand Mantra 9, that Akara has to be equated, Vaishvanara. Vaishvanara has to be equated with what we call the Kyagra Tavasta and Akara. Akara of the Omkara and Vaishvanara of the waking state. Both as equal, then he will become the foundation for everybody. And he will obtain all enjoyments if he has got desires for enjoyment. Otherwise, his mind becomes more Sattva Guna Sampanna, endowed with more Sattva. He says, I want to realise God. And only a person who wants to realise God can say, I don't want this. Ephemeral results. Why do we call them ephemeral results? Because if you go through all these desires, that means you are body-oriented, you are mind-oriented, also you are sleep-oriented. Because that also we are going to see in the Eleventh Mantra. But these are all limitations. However subtle they may be, they are all limitations. But if we want to be completely free, if we want, I am Atma Brahma, Aham Brahmasmi, then you have to give up today or tomorrow. So another point is, suppose there is a worldly person, and he wants these results, but he will only enjoy for some time, then satiation will come, then Vairagya will come, because every enjoyment is followed by equal amount of suffering. And he says, I had my quota, now I don't need them. Not I don't want them. That is called Markata Vairagya. I don't need them. And then his mind will be forever free from the waking state desires, dream state desires, finally sleeping state desires also. That is a point which we need to go through. So we will go through the same process in the Eleventh Mantra. What is this Eleventh Mantra? Third stage, Sushupta Stanaha. And who is this Prajna? Prajna means here, Eshwara, that is universal. And what is the letter of the Omkara? Symbol or syllable of the Omkara? Makaraha. And this is the third Matra. Akara is the first Matra, Ukara is the second Matra, Makara is the third Matra. So Makaraha Tritiya Matra is to be equated with Sushupta experience, Sushupti experience and Eshwara's experience. If we can do this Upasana, Mitehe api terva minoti hava idam sarvam api tischa bhavati ya evam idam. Prajna whose pair is deep sleep is Makara, the third letter of Omkara. And it is both the measure and that wherein all become one. It is also a measure where everything becomes one. I will explain to you. One who knows this absolute identity of both Eshwara and Makara is able to measure all. That means he realises the true nature of the entire world and also comprehends all within himself. That means he feels he knows everything. He knows everything because he feels, I am the world, I am Brahman with Nama Rupa. What is the world? Brahman with Nama Rupa. So this person who succeeds in this Upasana, in this third Upasana which is outlined in this eleventh, he contains all the results of the waking state, all the results of the dream state and that is why it is called he contains everything, he contains the whole world. Let us now do a bit of it. Sushupta sthanaha. Supta means sleep. Su-supta means very nice sleep. That means not being aware that you see what happens in the waking state. I am the waker. I see a tree. Tree also is there. I am also is there. Same thing happens in dream also. I am there. I see a tree. Even though it is a dream tree and dreamer seeing, but that division is there. But as we have seen earlier, when we are talking about this in the fifth mantra as Prajna, the Karana and Karya become completely covered up, but for the time being and that is called Sushupta sthanam. And the person who experiences as an individual is called Prajna. Prakrishta roopena ajnaha. That means a completely ignorant. Ignorant of what? Not ignorant of himself. Ignorant of the experiencer and the experience, the subject and the object. The dichotomy, the division is not any longer experienced. It becomes one. That is why it takes time for us to understand. Many people issue a statement, I slept so well, I did not know that I was sleeping. That is a stupid statement. Because what is it telling? I slept. Is not telling XYZ came and slept. How did you know you sleep? Because you cannot recollect a thing unless you are experiencing it all the time. Suppose you are seeing a car. You have seen it for five minutes and you will have to say when you are expressing it, I saw the car only for five minutes, after that I saw something else. But here what are you telling? The Sushupti is one where you do not see anything excepting that Sushupti sthana, experiencing for five hours, six hours from the waking state point of view. And you do not say I just experienced five minutes and rest of the time I did not know or somebody else experienced. You say all the time I was sleeping. That means you are completely aware, conscious that your mind has gone to sleep but you as this Akshay is experiencing. But because you are not experiencing subject-object, you cannot describe what you have experienced. Nevertheless, it is a marvelous experience. So that is why I said the dream state is superior to the waking state. That is because anything you can accomplish in a trice. You can meet any number of people. You can beat your boss if you want. You cannot, which you cannot do in the waking state. Of course, he can also beat you if your imagination is bad. So anything can be the time scale, energy scale and the obtainment scale becomes absolutely just your thought and you are in Gandharva Loka, Manasya Loka, Pitru Loka, Svarga Loka, Sri Loka, any Loka. That is what Taittiriya Upanishad says which I will not go into here. And what is there is if anybody succeeds that I am Ishwara and I am experiencing the cosmic Sushupti state called Ishwara and I am identical with Makara, what does he get? He becomes master of all the other two states because he measures. Means what? He contains within himself. Sarvam api tischa bhavati. So ultimately the Sushupti experience is the measure of how we live. If anybody can sleep, have deep sleep even for 10 minutes, he will be waking up absolutely refreshed and he need not do anything. He will be enthusiastically, joyfully and with tremendous energy going about discharging all his duties. So what does he get? That he gets all the results of the waking, all the results of the dreams and that is why it is called Anandamaya Kosha. He will be supremely happy person. Ultimately that is the only thing that counts. What is the problem? Problem is after some time unfortunately the person will be forced to come out. Again the same rigmarole will be going but one who succeeds in this, even when he is in the waking state, he will get the experience of the Sushupti. Even if he is in the dreaming state, he will get the experience of the Sushupti state. That means that Ananda. Whether he is awake, he is dreaming or he is sleeping, he will be filled with immeasurable Ananda. And if he does it with Sakama, then he will be the happiest person in the world. And if he is doing it with Nishkama, then very soon he will be able to get out of that state and he will ultimately become what we call one with Aham Brahmasmi. So, I am Atma, Brahma. I am Atma and I am Brahman. That will be the result if all the three Upasanas are done in a Nishkama way. As if, just I will give you an example and stop here. Suppose there is a building with three stories and the ground floor is full of these enjoyable objects. Anybody who does Upasana, he will not experience suffering. He will only enjoy and he will be stuck there. But if he is aware, my purpose is to go beyond all these three. He says, I don't want all these enjoyments. So quickly he will come to the second floor and there also he will not get stuck. But those who have got Sakama, he will get stuck. But as I said, ultimately he will also go beyond that after some time. It is a time-consuming process for a Sakami. For a Nishkami, as soon as he becomes perfect, immediately he will start climbing and he will come to the third floor which is called Sushupti Sthana. And the highest enjoyment possible, you can even call it Brahma Loka, Satya Loka enjoyment, Brahmananda Loka. And then he says, Oh Lord, I had enough of it. I want to be, I cannot tolerate any separation from You. I want to be one with You. So this is the ultimate, the only result, the long-lasting result, Atma Jnanam result of this Upasana. It is the most marvellous thing.