Chandogya Upanishad Lecture 84 on 09 March 2025

Full Transcript(Not Corrected)

OM JANANIM SHARADAM DEVIM RAMAKRISHNAM JAGADGURUM PADAPADMETAYOH SRIDHVA PRANAMAMI MUHURMUHU OM APYAYANTUM AMANGANIVAG PRANASCHAKSHUH SHROTRAMADHU BALAMINDRIYANICHA SARVANI SARVAM BRAHMAHU PANISHADAM MAHAM BRAHMANIRAKURIYAM MAHAM BRAHMANIRAKAROTANIRAKARANAMASTVANIRAKARANAMME ASTU TADATMANI NIRATE YAUPANISHATSU DHARMAHATE MAYI SANTU OM SHANTI SHANTI SHANTI HARE OM OM May my limbs, speech, vital force, eyes, ears, as also strength and all the organs become well developed. Everything is the Brahman revealed in the Upanishads. May I not deny Brahman. May not Brahman deny me. Let there be no spurning of me by Brahman. Let there be no rejection of Brahman by me. May all the virtues that are spoken of in the Upanishads repose in me. I am engaged in the pursuit of the Self. May they repose in me. OM Peace Peace Peace be unto all. In our last class, we were studying the 24th section of the 7th chapter of the Chandogya Upanishad and it is called Bhuma Vidya. What did we study? First of all, Sanat Kumara outlined and said that there is only happiness in infinity. There is no happiness in the finite or in the limited. That is the essence of the first mantra in this 24th section. And we also have entered into the second mantra of the same 24th section. In this second mantra, Sanat Kumara is trying to describe in negative terms to make sure that we all understand about Bhuma which is equivalent to Atman or Brahman without the least bit of confusion or doubt. There are many models of language, linguistic models applied in poetry, in philosophy. There is the model called positive. There is a beautiful tree, beautiful sunset. Very positive language. Then there is paradoxical language. That is both in positive and negative usage in the same sentence. For example, in the Isavasya Upanishad, It moves as well. It doesn't move. How is it possible? So it is inside, it is outside. How is it possible for one and the same thing to be inside, to be outside? Take a pot, there is space inside, there is space outside. Then is there something dividing outer and inner spaces? No. What is in between is also space only. Space means that complete emptiness. Without space, no object can be placed. But this is a bit difficult example for us to understand. For that we have to understand the theory of the Panchabhutas, five elements. So you see a pot. Mostly it is the outcome of Bhumi Tattva and also Jala Tattva, etc. All are involved. But mostly what we see is the earthly element. Where from the earth has come? From waters, according to Hindu theory. And the waters have come from fire or Agni or heat. And the heat has come because of the rapid movement in the air. And the air is the manifestation of space. And the space is the manifestation of Atma. So we are going to see this one very beautifully in the Taittiriya Upanishad. So Akasha is only manifesting as all the five bhutas including itself. And that is what is a pot. Therefore if we take the space example or analogy. Then inside there is nothing but space. Outside is nothing but space. And there is nothing that divides it. No second element other than space to divide it. But our experience inside, outside, here, there, now, some other time. These are what is called the tricks of the mind. And if you study dream state, all these tricks will be revealed. So you may be lying here. But your mind makes you think you are in America or elsewhere. Are you in America? You are dreaming. You are in India, etc. So what is meant is that infinity can be described as moving and non-moving, inside and outside, one and many, by whom? By us. Because for us infinity has no meaning. We are only accustomed to see, to hear, to smell, to taste, to touch. Only that which is duality. And that is our problem. A bit of this indication comes in the deep sleep state. So Sanat Kumara is trying. But he is teaching this to whom? To Narada. And Narada was a qualified student. He is Adhikari Sadhana Chatustaya Sampannaha Adhikari. He is endowed with all the qualities necessary to be able to understand. Divine Mother has granted him Dhiyo Yonaha Prachodaya. Once in the Gospel, Sri Ramakrishna was asking something of M. M said, this is what I understood. Sri Ramakrishna gave certificate. Yes, it is Mother's grace that you have understood very well. These are all different terms for that deeper understanding. So we were talking about what is called languages. When a poet describes about a beloved person, your face is like the moon. We should not take literally. It means it affects the mind just as beautiful moon at night affects our mind. It's beautiful. This is called evocative language. Then there is a negative language, Neti Neti. And that is the language that is being used here to reinforce this statement, the teaching by Sanath Kumar to Narada. And here it goes. Where a person doesn't see anything else. A person where doesn't see, doesn't hear anything else. Doesn't smell anything else. Doesn't taste anything else. Doesn't touch anything else. That is all five external sense organs. And by my mind also, he doesn't understand. Because I will tell you why Sanath Kumar is using. And that which is beyond the five sense organs and the mind, that is called Bhuman. But on the contrary, where one experiences in the form of seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, thinking, etc. That is finite. What do we mean by finite? Finite means where there is a clear distinction. Dwaitam, duality. Knower, the known. The seer, the seen. The smeller, the smell. The taster and the food he tastes. The toucher and that which is touched. Everything, every sense organ that we see, we experience, clearly indicates a subject-object division. And that is completely denied. Because now if we go, Where one doesn't see. That is Bhuma. And why does a person not see? Because there is nothing else. In infinity, who is going to see whom? And that is the meaning. We have to apply the whole thing. But the first one is the description of a realized soul. And the second one, that is where we see, we hear, we taste, we touch, we smell, we think, and we decide, and we act. And we feel happy or we feel unhappy. That is the experience of the bound souls with the help of the mind. And then in the third statement, What I just now described, That alone is immortality. Because mortality is not there. Why? Because whatever is finite, that has birth, that has stay, and that disintegrates. That is why, But whatever is infinite, there is no question. Because to be born, time must be there. To be born, space must be there. To be born, what we call some cause must be there. But all these are absent. That means mind is absent. That means that is the description of the Brahman. And so we also have to, Never say Brahman has happiness. Never say that. Brahman is happiness. Brahman is existence. Brahman is consciousness. Brahman is Ananda. Sat, Chit, Ananda or Satyam, Jnanam, Anantam. Whatever is finite, that is what is called Martyam. Martyam means Maranasvabhavaha. That which changes and death is nothing but a change. It is called final change. This was what we discussed. Then Narada is asking a beautiful question. All these descriptions, Hey Bhagawan, that you have given me, that it is Amrita and it is immeasurable, etc. Is it like what we experience in this world? What does it mean? We will go into it. First let me read. Now Narada is asking a very beautiful question. We should ask that question. If that question doesn't arise, Narada's question should help us. Bhagawan is addressing Sanat Kumara. O Lord, In which is it established? That means what is supporting it? What is making it infinite? What a question. Then what was the answer? Immediately Sanat Kumara says, Either it is supported by its own glory or perhaps there is no supporter called glory at all. So what does this support mean? That is where we have to discuss now. Even Sanat Kumara himself is giving this one. Now as we discussed earlier, the original Ananda is called Bimba Ananda and the reflected Ananda is called Pratibimba Ananda. Bimba Pratibimba, two terms very frequently used in our Vedantic literature. And another name for this Pratibimba Ananda is called Vishayananda. Even though earlier I have mentioned what is called four types of finite happinesses. That is Vishayananda, Medhananda, Kalananda and Dharmananda. All these fall only within the dualistic state. Let me explain. So here is a person. He is enjoying through his body and that is called Vishayananda. Vishaya means object. And he thinks this Vishaya as Ananda, as its quality and he is deriving it. Sweetness is the quality of the sweet and sweetness gives happiness. Actually there is no such rule. Some people may not like sweets at all and some people may immensely love bitterness, sourness, etc. So nowadays a term has come, Katta Metta. So people don't like either sour or sweet. They want a beautiful appropriate mixture of both of them. So anything that is very gross is called Vishayananda. But other than this, all the other three Anandas belong to the mind. So the next one is intellectual happiness. When a person starts developing a thinking power called intellect, he gets much higher, much more extensive. That means both in quantity and quality and duration, it is incomparable to the gross object because its limits are very much stressed. But still it is limited. Higher than that is what we call aesthetic happiness. That is even greater. And greater than that is to think, to put oneself in the shoes of everybody. That is called moral life. That is called moral happiness. Most often we do not understand that morality, practice of morality, Dharmam and Sathyam or Ritam and Sathyam, is full of unhappiness, suffering, beset with problems, difficulties. No. They are also very, very important. So even in this world, a person gets highest happiness. Why? Because everybody's happiness is happiness only. But what about everybody's unhappiness? There is something that happens when a person is experiencing so much of happiness. So the other happiness he understands clearly is that these other persons are experiencing not suffering but less happiness in comparison to higher happiness. And therefore, really speaking, there is no unhappiness at all. Otherwise, every Jeevan Mukta must be suffering equally along with enjoyment. In fact, it is contradictory. At the same time, one cannot experience both happiness and unhappiness. But for a Jeevan Mukta, everything is nothing but a marvel of joy. So therefore, Dharmananda is there. This is what we have said. But here is the crux. Accepting Brahmananda, even this Vishayananda, Medhananda, Kalananda and Dharmananda are called Pratibimba Ananda. It is only reflected happiness. Why do we say? Because if you want to experience an object, there must be an object other than you. If you want to enjoy a book, for example, there must be a book. And not only that, there will be another book which is not so enjoyable. So there is an enjoyable book, a non-enjoyable book. If you want to experience aesthetic happiness also, there is a very good painting, very bad painting, very good singing, what is called horrible type of singing, which I prefer to call it singeing, instead of singing. So what about Dharmananda? Yes, it is true that there is higher happiness. But you have to be in the world. You have to be seeing multiplicity even to identify yourself with somebody else. That continuous nagging feeling. There are so many people, so many objects for me to identify with them. Therefore, that is also a dualistic happiness. That is why all these four are applicable only in the Jagrat Avastha, which one? Shayananda. And in the Swapna Avastha, or subtle mind, happiness of the mind, the other three, intellectual happiness, aesthetic happiness, and moral happiness. But when we enter into the Sushupti, deep sleep state, the mind itself temporarily becomes inactive. That is why it is called Karan Sharira. There is no duality there for the time being. And then the happiness, unbroken happiness. That is why we don't count seconds. We try beyond. We don't know where we are. We don't know how long we have slept. And that is the experience of the Sushupti, or deep sleep. But it gives a hint. But even the Sushupti is also a state. And because it is a state, it is separate from me. And therefore, that is also the most refined, dualistic experience only. In fact, it is a multiplication of all the other Anandas. What is Ananda? When a person is eating a sweet, there is for one millisecond, there is a complete identity with the sweet, removing the subject-object differentiation. And that moment, temporary moment, is extended for a long time. Upon waking up, we find for hours together. And that is called Sushupti. And nevertheless, it is not a Advaitic Ananda. It is only Avastha Ananda. Sushupti Avastha Ananda. That is a point we have to understand. Now coming back, Narada asks. So let me give a small introduction before we go inside. When we see, here is a president of a very powerful nation. He is a president. He has all the powers. Highest power. He can do whatever he likes. And that is what people are doing. I will not mention the name. You understand? All weird things are being done. So that is his Mahima, his glory, his power. For the moment, nobody can stop him. So therefore, he is a most powerful person. That most powerful power, that is called Mahima. That is called glory. And this glory makes him great. A person is not great. He is totally dependent upon this power. And that power and the person are totally different. If that person is not elected next time, have you noticed? For four or five years, a person becomes so powerful. Every day, that person will be in news. Probably all the hours in different countries. But the moment he steps down, hardly any mention is made. And funnily, the present person who is in power, he goes on making adverse remarks. That person's point, that thing, the other thing, many things. One probably doesn't see any good at all. So anyway, I am trying to describe, when a person is very powerful, then that power is not him. He is different. Power is different. And that power supports him. That is called Mahima. So when a person possesses a lot of money, he is called a wealthy person. That wealth supports him. So that is the description. If a person has got some cows, some horses, some elephants, some field lands, and as well as money and servants, all these are the greater, the more of all these things, the greater is his glory. And this is what we recognize. And we go there also. You are powerful. That means you are capable of fulfilling some of my needs, etc. But the moment all these things, either he can die, or another funny way, then that person, rich person, or a person who can sing gloriously, or a person who can write, a person who can swing words, any type of power, if that person is in deep sleep, is the same person. Many times I told you, if an Einstein is asleep, can he be called Einstein? Or when he is completely awake, then only he can be called Einstein. Otherwise, there is no difference between Einstein and a most ignorant person, and both are in the state of Sushupti. Please keep that one. Now, Narada's question is, is Brahman also like that? He also possesses certain qualities called infinite goodness, infinite purity, infinite power, infinite knowledge, and everything infinite, infinite compassion. Therefore, are they like the possessions that we ordinary human beings possess, or a lion's strength? So long as that strength is there, lion is respected, everything runs away, but the moment it becomes injured, or weak, or old, then death comes very swiftly. So, it is just food. Every animal or every other animal is nothing but food. So, Narada asks, is there something like that, like we see in this world, that Brahman possesses, possessions of Brahman, which make him so glorious? Then Sanat Kumara says, No. Brahman's glory is Brahman only. Or, another way he says, Maybe he doesn't have any glory at all. It looks like a paradoxical statement. Oh Bhagwan, you are confusing me. Either tell he is established, he is supported by his own glory, or he is not supported by his own glory. What is this? One moment you say, yes, he is supported by his own glory, but he is perhaps not supported by any glory. So, if we take the first meaning, then there is a problem. In our case, I already illustrated, if a person is honoured, or respected, or feared because of the power, the power is different, the person is different. If the power is gone, nobody respects that person. In fact, they may take it out also. Is that what you mean? Or, what does Sanat Kumara mean? He means that actually, Brahman doesn't have any glory. Is Brahman infinite? I have to say, no. Is Brahman amrita, immortal? I have to say, no. Why? It may surprise. Who is telling? Brahman is immortal. Brahman is all purity. Brahman is all pervading. Brahman is all compassion. Brahman is all good. Brahman is all power. Who is telling? I am telling. You are telling. Every believer is telling. And the non-believer also is telling. No, he doesn't have. There is no God. Why are you talking about God? If you don't believe in the existence of God, where is the need for you to mention specially, I don't believe in the existence of such and such a thing. It is a very funny statement. Nobody can make. If you truly believe something doesn't exist, you can't even talk about it. Let alone describe it. But then, you know, in opposition to argue with believers, a non-believer speaks such and such a thing. Now, coming back, So, what Sanat Kumara means is, My dear Narada, There are two views or two experiences. One, that of a realized soul. From the viewpoint of the realized soul, and it is a description for our benefit, there is no such thing called description of Brahman. Therefore, there is no such thing called description of a realized soul, Both are wrong only. Nobody can describe. We have to understand clearly these beautiful statements. So, what does Sanat Kumara says? When you realize Brahman, you don't even think because there is no mind. Why is there no mind? Because mind is that which brings the division, the duality. And Brahman being infinite, there is nothing called I have a body, I have a mind. Then who is going to tell whether I am established in my own glory? A Jivan Mukta doesn't say, I am established in my own glory. I am Brahman. A realized soul will not say, I am a realized soul. Because in his vision, there is nobody else to whom he can tell. This is what Swami Brahman was telling to one of his disciples. At some times, my mind attains, it sees only Rama. At that time, my mind doesn't feel like teaching anybody. Who is to teach whom? Is Rama? There is an ignorant Rama. And there is a wise Rama. Rama is Rama. Rama means God. I see God in everything. At that time, who is to teach whom? Only a knowing person, out of compassion, has to teach a non-knowing person. That is what Ajay Maharaj says. But fortunately for us, he understands like a psychiatrist, who knows we are not non-Brahman. But he also knows, we do not know that we are non-Brahman. A psychiatrist knows this person is absolutely a common person. He is not Napoleon. But this person doesn't know that he is not a Napoleon. He thinks he is a Napoleon. So there comes a presumed, what is called imagined, I am the teacher, you are the taught. That is very necessary. That is why Sri Ramakrishna puts it so funnily. Shukadeva approached Janaka Maharaja for instructions regarding Brahman. And the first thing Janaka Maharaja says, give me my Guru Dakshina. Usually, Guru Dakshina is to be given at the end. We have seen in the Taittiriya Upanishad, having returned home, Acharyaya Priyam Dhanam Ahrutya Prajatantam Ma Vyavatsyat Si. So Shukadeva asked, but you have not even taught me. Why should I give? Because whether you are going to teach or not is doubtful. And even if you teach something which I already know, that is also totally useless. And in Sri Ramakrishna's words, he might have heard this story. He says, Janaka replies, when I finish teaching, and immediately you will understand, then there would be no distinction in your mind between the Guru and the disciple. Therefore, if you don't know anybody as a Guru, what do you think? I am the Guru, I am the disciple. Then who is going to give Dakshina to whom? If at all he feels like playing a solitaire game, then he will take the Dakshina in his right hand and gives it to his left hand. Here is your Dakshina. But the Guru is not going to get anything. So this is the view. A realized soul never declares, I am Brahman, because there is nobody and there is no mind for him. Therefore, who is going to declare? But from our viewpoint of view, these great Rishis, they are presuming, as Jivan Mukta says, there is a state called Brahmanhood and I attain that Brahmanhood and you can also, or anybody else also, can attain, like a scientist, provided you fulfil these conditions. So therefore, from the second point of view, there is no Mahima, no glory to support him. From the first point of view, Brahman is its own glory, because that is Brahman. That is what Brahman is. And again, these two views are only from the viewpoint of our own mind. I am reminding you again, when you are thinking, what could be the state of a Brahma Jnani, that is your imagination. And what could be the state of a person, an ordinary person, that is also your imagination only. So from both viewpoints, Sanat Kumara had no option but to say, Brahman is supported by its own glory. That is one view. Brahman is not supported by any glory. Both views, any view, is only from the dualistic point of view. And that is what I wish you to understand properly. So Narada is not confused now, because he is a glorious student. He understands it. So to say, Mahimni, in his own glory, is supported. But perhaps not even his own glory. These are all from the highest point of view. So for us to make us understand, then here the description comes in what is called the next mantra. गो अश्वमिवा महिमा इति आचक्षते हस्ति हिरण्यं धासा भार्यां शेत्राणि आयतनानेति अहम् न एवं ब्रवीमि न अहम् एवं ब्रवीमि अहम् एवं न ब्रवीमि धन ब्रवीमि इति ह उआचा अन्योहि अन्यस्मिन प्रतिष्ठितह इति Sanat Kumara is clarifying it about the glory that we understand of anybody on this earth So I just now give an example A president of USA He is the most powerful person probably in the whole world So what is the glory? Let us take a person, ordinary person What is his glory? So he has got a cow means a cow, cows अश्वा Even though singularity is used, singular number is used We have to multiply it If a person has got one cow, one horse and what is called महिमा इत्याचक्षते That is called his possession Glory here means, Mahima means possession Then not only that, हस्ती May be he has got an elephant, may be old elephant may be discarded elephant हिरण्यम् He has got lot of gold, means money दासा He has got servant भार्याम् and he has got a wife शेत्राणि He has got lots of fields for cultivation आयतनानि आयतना means a house in which he has may be a person has got more than one house अहम् ओनारदा एवं न प्रवेमी I do not mean by the प्रम्मन्स महिमा in this manner Why? Because there is no duality प्रम्मन् is not finite प्रम्मन् is infinite Infinity if you understand there is nothing besides it We have to apply that one प्रवीति इतिहो वाच But what am I talking about? I am not speaking like in this world we experience So here is a person who has got one cow or one horse etc. But here is another person Many cows are there and many horses are there and many elephants are there There is like a Kshatriya or a king and plenty of gold is there wealth is there fields are there like Muslim kings Nawabs Hundreds of wives are there and Dasa and thousands of the whole Roman civilization You will see only all because of they used to capture in battles whoever is defeated however great those persons are they are made into lifelong slaves Only food and dress are given and they are treated like animals They are sold even in the early 19th century America Anybody can beat them rape them and then do whatever horrible things they are capable of doing They can even sell them separating the mothers from the children etc. So Dasa means servants So Bhariya Kshetra The whole country is his only How many rooms are there in the Buckingham Palace I am not talking but the greater these things we admire that person we bow down to that person we respect that person because any of these possessions is what is called power and power is to be feared What I am speaking about O Narada is If anybody is completely supported by somebody else by something else that is called Mahima but this doesn't apply to Brahman as discussed earlier so it is not possible Why? Because Brahman is infinite That means what? Even if you take a small tree for example in our example or a flower a rose flower It is a rose That very name separates it from millions of other flowers It is a rose colored rose Rose doesn't mean rose colored only It can be red, it can be white it can be yellow, it can be of any color So that is only distinguishing and it can be fragrant it can be unpetalled and it could be very fragrant highly fragrant like Athar so all these things are its glory and people long to have the best of those things so even these things what happens as soon the color fades away the perfume fades away and the softness fades away and there is a death a fully bloomed state and there is a dried up state slowly so depending upon it people admire their admiration will be less the less it possesses these qualities the less also will be admiration and if it is completely dried then it is practically thrown away excepting of course Athar these petals are used even in sweets etc so in short what is meant is here is a person he has many possessions and the greater the possession greater is his power and that is called Mahima and people respect him because of that power and if the power is totally separate from that person person is different glory is different power, possessions are different and as I said in Sushrupti a person has nothing to speak and that is why he is so happy so this is called Mahima I am not talking about it I am only talking that Brahman is its own support infinity is its own support infinity supports infinity there are no two infinites but in our case every dual thing every citizen supported by the government is voted by the citizens and it is protected by the greater the army the greater is the security etc then there is economic prosperity is there so many factors are there then there is a climate factor is there we are totally dependent upon these things so long as there is some positive something which is helping us to enjoy our life whether it is medical facility or whatever and that person that country is glorious to that extent so Brahman's glory everything else and then we continue this section 25 and then further after having said Brahman is infinite it is called Bhoma limitless, limitness is caused by three factors that is Desha, Kala and Vastu space, time and another object they limit each one of us but further beautiful description where is this Brahman don't ask where is this Brahman you have to ask where is not Brahman so when Prahlada was asked by Hiranyakashipu where is your Narayana I am searching for the whole life because if you search thinking Narayana is somebody, is an individual, he looks like this and he is hiding somewhere, you will never get him, why? because he doesn't have form, he doesn't have any name, he can be called by any name, he can be at any place at every place so he is everything so where is your Narayana I am here, I am Hiranyakashipu you are Prahlada you are here like that your Narayana should be somewhere, only one individual can fight the other individual but then Prahlada was an enlightened soul and this is beautifully this describes Prahlada's state of mind, just father where is not Brahman Narayana, Narayana is you cannot say he is here or he is somewhere else wherever you see whatever you experience is nothing but Narayana then naturally is he in this pillar, of course he is in the pillar he is outside the pillar he is inside the pillar but more important he is the pillar then Hiranyakashipu still could not understand but he breaks that pillar and out comes what does it mean it means that pillar represents his egotism and when that egotism is broken that ism is separated from ego then that ego is pure existence, pure knowledge and pure bliss Sat Chit Anandam Satyam Gnanam Anandam and it is only for explaining to people like us who cannot understand such high concepts that God has come in the form of a ferocious half lion Ugra Narasimha Nara and Simha half human and half lion and then he killed, means what what can God kill God is knowledge what can knowledge destroy only ignorance so there is no Hiranyakashipu there is no Narayana whatever exists none other than Brahman, so long as you think you are I am Narayana I am Shiva, I am Vishnu I am Jesus, I am Buddha that is the meaning he wants to give so in this 25th section he gives very briefly I am telling then I will stop here Saiva Adastat that Bhuma, that Brahman, that Atman Adastat is down, Uparista above Paschat behind Purastat in front Dakshinataha at the right hand side, Uttarataha left hand side and then Sava Idam Sarvam whatever you see in none other than Brahman and then having said this one then says that Brahman that Brahman, that Brahman so that tree that person, that car, that country that religion that means I am separate the country is separate person is separate, religion is separate everything is totally separate so about Brahman also he says that Brahman then the doubt may come for people like us, not for Narada so he says that remove that and substitute it with Aham so what you know what he says Atha Athaha Ahamkara Adeshayeva, Ahamkara substituted, what is it Ahameva Adastat Ahameva Uparistat Aham Paschat, Aham Purastat Aham Dakshinataha, Aham Uttarataha Ahameva Idam Sarvam that infinite alone is below, that is above that is behind, that is in front and I am that Brahman, therefore I am below, I am above I am in the back I am in the front, I am in the right side I am in the right side Ahameva Idam Sarvam Sayeva Idam Sarvam that Sa is substituted by Aham, Ahameva Idam Sarvam this is the most marvelous Mahavakya about which we will talk in our next life Om Jananim Sharadam Devayim Ramakrishnam Jagadgurum Vadapadmetayo Saritva Pranamami Mohur Moho May Ramakrishna Holy Mother and Swami Vekananda bless us all with Bhakti, Jai Ramakrishna