Chandogya Upanishad Lecture 52 on 17 November 2024

Full Transcript (Not Corrected)

We are studying the Chandogya Upanishad of Sama Veda. We have taken up the 7th chapter of Chandogya Upanishad. A great spiritual aspirant called Narada approached a realized soul, a Brahmavid called Sanat Kumara. And Sanat Kumara asked him, definitely you have come to me to learn something. Of course, Sanat Kumara knew that he had not come to learn any secular knowledge, but only spiritual knowledge. So what do you know so far? And Narada enumerated practically all the encyclopedic knowledge that was existing. But Narada himself not only studied, but studied himself. He said, I am only the knower of information, which he calls Nama. How do I know? Because if it was a realization, I would have attained peace. But I do not have peace. And I heard only those who realize the Self, they will have peace of mind from people like you. So please uplift me, take me across this ocean of fear, this ocean of restlessness, ocean of no peace. So that is how Sanat Kumara starts the teaching. And what is he going to teach is called Bhumananda. Bhumananda means infinite joy. And infinite joy comes from infinite knowledge. One fact that we always forget, of which I reminded you many a time, that is, suppose you are dreaming and you are dreaming, you are enjoying a very nice sweet. Actually, you are not eating anything. But the very thought becomes concrete. And what is that thought? That is the knowledge that I am eating a sweet and I am a very happy person. So this is a fact we have to keep, whether we are suffering, whether we are enjoying, that it is awareness of our thoughts that makes us good or evil, happy or unhappy, etc. So this is what we have to understand. Now Sanat Kumara is taking him. What did he do? The very first khanda or section, so the story goes and then Narada confesses. I am only a knower of information. How much information? Almost infinite. Not really, because there is no end to the secular knowledge at all. So, but I am not an Atmavit, that is to say, the knowledge, the information has not affected me. So you please teach me how I can make even worldly knowledge also very effective, which Swami Vaikaranda calls practical Vedanta. I am just giving you a small example. If you know how to sweep a room very nicely, then use it to serve yourself as well as others. If you know how to cook, use that knowledge of the cookery to serve yourself and others. And if you don't do that, either you get benefit, of course others do not, will not. So that is called information. Turn information into some practical usage. That is what technicians do it. Scientist's business is to discover knowledge and technician's business is to transform that theoretical knowledge into some practical gadget. And politicians are those who use it or misuse it. And we also, politicians to a great extent, for example, we have got this beautiful Google, YouTube and anybody, this particular blessing was not available even a few years back. So anyone who is discriminative enough, they have the whole wisdom of all the scriptures at their fingertips. You can access any Swami, hear even any type of music at any given time and according to your time, you can listen five minutes or five hours, whatever it is. So there is a great freedom in it. But if somebody doesn't practicalize it, that is called realization. It is useless. That is what Narada confesses. I have not turned my knowledge and I want to learn from you how to make this knowledge or even understand it in depth. Here mantra means only the information, the dry knowledge, the theory. And then I heard it that people like you, you have progressed in spiritual life. So you must judge me where I am and take me. And that is what exactly Sanat Kumara has done. And what is the result of this information without any practicality? So Aham Bhagavaha Shochami. And I will also quote in course of time what Sri Ramakrishna has to say as if Sri Ramakrishna had squeezed the very essence of all these Upanishads and gives appropriate illustrations, analogies, etc. So Aham, that is me. What type of me? Only master of information. Bhagavaha, Hey Bhagavan, Shochami. I am always in misery. I am suffering. I grieve. But I know I have taken the right decision to come to you. Tam such as me, Ma Bhagavan. Shokasya param You must take me, put an end to all my sorrow, suffering, misery, unhappiness, peacelessness, restlessness. And Sanat Kumara found that really this person was in earnest. So addressing Narada, Sanat Kumara says Advai Kincha Etat Adhyagesta. Whatever you have mastered as a matter of information, that one, that information, we have to add Sarvam. Everything that you learned, only name, only information, only right knowledge. Sri Ramakrishna gives a beautiful example that once he heard the lecture of some Brahmo leader. He says, Oh, my brothers, that Brahmo leader is addressing. God is a dry, is a dryest, I should not say dried fish, dry stick. So we have to fill him with all that rasa. And then Sri Ramakrishna said, What is this fool saying? All the happiness that we have, the greatest joy we have, the source of all that joy is this infinite ocean of joy. Sachidananda Sagara. And this fellow says that God is dry. This is called mere information. So this is what we have also said. Nama Eva Etat. Whatever you know, whatever you are a master of, that is only Nama, theory, information. Practically, it had not helped you. And therefore, the very first step is, since you know many things, Nama Upasva Iti. You must contemplate this very information as Brahman. Where really Rig Veda is a name, Yajur Veda, Sama Veda, Atharvana Veda and everything that was enumerated by Narada is nothing but a name. Name means here mantra also, but here information, dry knowledge, theory and useless. Meditate on the name. Now I want to quote a little bit from Sri Ramakrishna on book learning. Book learning means here, here in what is called Nama by Sanat Kumara is called dry book learning by Sri Ramakrishna. And then he used to make not only fun, but pun, P-U-N. So he has got many such things. Grantha is Granthi. Grantha means any book and Granthi means a knot. That is every mastery of a book brings, that increases the ego. I am a master of this, etc. Granthi means a knot or a bondage. And then he has got also Pass Na Pasha. Every subject a person passes, every class, say for example, Matriculation Pass, then Intermediate Pass, then BA or BSc Pass, MA or MSc Pass or PhD, which some Swami funnily called Permanent Head Damage. So all these things are called a bondage. Very difficult to get rid of it. So some Swamis, even after becoming a Swami, MA, PhD, huge number of titles. Of course, the person had worked, but a wise person will not do that. So here are a few sayings of Sri Ramakrishna. One day, the late Keshav Chandra Sen came to Sri Ramakrishna at the temple of Dakshineshwar and he asked him, how is it that even learned people remain so profoundly ignorant of things that truly matter in spiritual life, although they have read a whole library of religious books? It looks to me, this statement of Keshav Chandra Sen looks to me very funny. Why? Because I don't know whether he is asking about meaning, referring to himself, because he himself was such a person. How do we know? Because so many entanglements, the rules he himself made for a girl to be married, which is supposed to be 18 years or so, he himself broke when a convenient marriage alliance had appeared. And then he started preaching about himself. So what I am talking to you is an Adesha, is a commandment that is coming from God himself. That means I am the direct representative of God. So like that, I am a prophet. So you must believe whatever I say. And without questioning, you must do this and that. And that attitude put off many people. Anyway, he was asking a very useful thing for us. So then what is the reason? Although they have read a whole library of religious books, and the master Sri Ramakrishna replied, the kite and the vulture soar high up in the air, but all the time their eyes remain fixed on charnel houses in search of uterine carcasses. This is a very famous saying of Sri Ramakrishna. Every pundit whose life is not transformed, like that Bhagavata Pandit story I narrated in my last class, who was trying to teach the king, but the disciple became an eye-opener. And then he genuinely prayed to God and got enlightenment, stopped teaching the king, and then renounced the world and went away. I also reminded you by repeating the word Gita, what you get is the essence of the Gita. Tagi means oh man, give up attachments to temporary things, changing things, undependable things, and take refuge in God. And that is the real thing about Bhagavad Gita, real essence. Sri Ramakrishna continues, similarly, the minds of the so-called learned men are attached to the things of the world, to lust and wealth, what very commonly expressed by, often commonly expressed by Sri Ramakrishna, kama and kanchana, lust and lucre, or money and sex, in spite of their erudition in sacred lore, because a pundit is one who is supposed to be familiar with all the sacred scriptures, and hence they cannot attain true knowledge. Sri Ramakrishna points a wonderful point here, we have to note it down. That is, first of all, we have to purify ourselves. So, if we want to get true knowledge, we must make way to true knowledge, and that is by emptying the false knowledge, that is by waking up and saying, all this knowledge will not help me. Then Sri Ramakrishna has to define what is right knowledge, true knowledge, and he says that knowledge which purifies the mind and heart alone is true knowledge, all else is only a negation of knowledge. Very beautiful saying again, since we read other books also, so certain connections happen in my mind. So, this is what the third or the second definition, sutra, patanjali yogi, what does he say? Yoga is perfectly purifying the mind and that is true knowledge and everything else. And here Sri Ramakrishna, by mind he means intellectual understanding, by heart he means that the right response to appropriate for that intellectual knowledge, that alone is true knowledge. How do we know? The third sutra will tell us. If it is true knowledge, what is true knowledge? God alone is real, everything else is temporary. This is the third commandment of Sri Ramakrishna, always discriminate, everything in this universe is temporary, God alone is permanent. That is what he is telling, that true knowledge is what? It is the awakening to the fact that God alone is real and then there is a beautiful psychological truth. We never react to false. If we know somebody is telling a truth, untruth, a lie, we will not trust that person. If we know some object is defective, that means it is not true, then we will not buy it, we don't want to possess it. We are all in search of what is reliable. That reliability, another name for that is God. Sri Ramakrishna also is a beautiful example. A parrot repeats only a holy name by rote, Radha Krishna, but as soon as it is caught by a cat, it screams, Kang, Kang, betraying its natural crime. However much we repeat Nama, if we do not remember God as the only reality, it does not help. So we have to be reborn again and again until we come to that knowledge that God alone is the reality and further all the knowledge that one obtains is actually intellectual knowledge which is obtained through reason. And Sri Ramakrishna continues, in the kingdom of God, reason, intellect and learning are of no avail. And this is the reflection of the statement in the Katha Upanishad, By logic, by intellectual gymnastics, one will never get it. So at one point of time, like Narada, there was a time in the life of Narendranath and he was longing for God realization. And you must understand his knowledge is very vast, practically in every subject, like Narada. And then he was longing. One day he ran. He did not know that he was encountering dust, sawdust and hay all over his body. He ran like a mad person. And then, please show me the way to God. I am only rephrasing it. Then Sri Ramakrishna said, why don't you continue your studies? Then he made this famous statement, if I could only forget, all that I learned. This is what exactly Sanat Kumara was trying to tell. But Swami Vivekananda did not discount the value of knowledge. That is what Holy Mother's words also, from her mouth only come, Veda and Vedanta. So she said about Sadhus, every Sadhu is like the value of an elephant. An elephant by itself is very valuable. But if the elephant has got two long tusks and it is like elephant is wearing gold or I would say more than gold. So what does it mean? It means a learned Sadhu is far superior to any ordinary Sadhu who is not learned and but who is leading a good life. So all this discussion that we had, does it mean information, Nama or Mantra is useless? No. Nama is not only useful but it is indispensable. How? Why? So we will just analyze a little bit. So supposing you never heard the name of a train, the name of a bus, the name of an aeroplane. Then the desire for buying a ticket or moving from place to place. Suppose you never heard the holy place, a holy place called Kashi. Will you feel a desire? The very first thing is Nama. What does Nama mean? Name. What does a name do? Every name pertains to a particular object. Kashi is a particular place. Motor car is a particular object. Poison is a very harmful substance. So everything in this world and this world has infinite objects and therefore the Nama, the names is also infinite. That is why Nama Brahma Upasana. Not only that. So supposing there are even now religions which do not accept many manifestations of God. They only know one manifestation. So they brainwashed their followers that you have to take only one name. But Hinduism is a supermarket. Vishnu has thousand names. Shiva has thousand names. Devi. Any of the aspects of Devi. Saraswati, Lakshmi, Parvati, Lalita. Thousand names. Thousand doesn't mean only thousand. Infinite number of names. So that gives a choice. You take any name that you like, any form that you like and this would have removed so much of fanaticism, arrow-mindedness. But not only that. So much of atrocity is going on in the name of religion. This supreme liberality of Sarva Dharma Samanvaya, Sarva Yoga Samanvaya, Sarva Karma Samanvaya. It is most necessary and that's why God incarnated as Ramakrishna. So everything that has a name has an indicated object and every name has a form corresponding. Rupa. Nama. Rupa. We can intellectually separate. Really cannot separate. Think of a tree. Mango. Mango tree. Just think and immediately a rupa, a form of that tree will come. So very useful. Then what is this mango tree? For example, is it going to give fruits? Are the fruits edible? And they are not only edible but they are more than edible. They are very sweet, very desirable. Even animals know it. It is said that in many places where the elephants reside, there is a tree. I don't know what is it, bova tree or something and it gives fruits at a particular season and if these animals eat that fruit, then they become intoxicated. They enjoy that intoxication and they know and then when the season comes, the matriarch directly leads the entire head to that cluster of trees and monkeys are seen dancing after eating and then dancing intoxicatedly. No difference between Yadavas who drank at Prabhasateertha and took out the hard grass that was growing there, kusha grass and then killed each other and of course that was the curse of a Rishi but whatever it is that every animal instinctively knows. I have seen here dogs. They go into the garden and eat a particular type of grass and then vomit and then whatever stomach troubles they have, so instinctively they learn so many other things. I don't want to go into that details. What is important? Every name has a form and every form has a quality and every quality has some information, desirable, undesirable, good or evil, etc. So this is the basis. First of all, name. That is very important. Name, particular name belongs only to a particular object but what is important here is if that remains a theoretical knowledge, yes, yes, mango is very flavorful, very sweet but we make no attempt to obtain it by hook, crook or by borrowing, stealing, buying and then do not enjoy it, then we are the greatest fools on earth. So is the case with all this learning. So one example, a great Swami gives, we can have a very nice idea of the inner structure of the sun, a solar system but we cannot influence it. We cannot have any sway over the sun or for that etc., etc., the moon, the stars, any control because of that knowledge alone. That is theoretical knowledge but the scientists have been using it. How are they using it? Every star has got a magnetic field, gravitational force and then how to navigate a satellite in between those things is a most marvelous thing. Now I think 40, 50 years back America has sent one satellite and it has gone beyond our known galaxy and still it is sending marvelous information and sometimes startling information. What am I driving at? That theoretical knowledge will not help anybody. It should become practical and how it should become practical? I am giving you another example. Belur mat and it was summer season, extremely hot climate and Swami Brahmanandaji and one of his sevaks, they were sitting. Both of them were suffering because saint also will have a body. He will not also suffer and suddenly Brahmanandaji, probably to teach a lesson to the disciple said, let us meditate on Himalayas and Maharaj sat down in meditation. Of course, the Brahmachari sat down in a meditational pose. Nothing is happening because he must be cursing the sun and everybody else. Suddenly Maharaj opened his eyes and said, feel, touch the back of my body and then the Brahmachari touched and he found astounding because it became like a coldest block of ice. Now what is the point here? The point is that he is not merely thinking, he has become one. He had become, he was meditating, contemplating on Himalayas. He became the Himalayas and so he became very cool and then there are many other stories I can tell but one simple story. Swami Akhandanandaji during his wanderings in the Himalayas and then he suddenly met a Lama, Tibetan Lama or Yogi and then he was sitting. All around him, it was the ice has become very, very thick and strong but where this Yogi was sitting, the ice was melting and flowing. Yogi said, you touch my body and so much of heat was being generated that all the ice surrounding him, it started flowing like water and then the Yogi said, I can teach you but I don't know what happened. Akhandanandaji did not mention what happened but he narrated this incident. So what is meant is that if the knowledge has no connection with reality, what is this connection? There is a mango tree, it has beautiful mango fruits and then I can go and this is what I used to do it also. We had a very, very tasty Sapota tree and it used to yield hundreds of flowers. There are varieties of Sapota but there is one variety. If you just scratch this what is called grey colored skin, then pure green color will come. That is supposed to be. So by feeling it, we know it is ripe and then if you don't do that, the squirrels will do the job for you or birds also will do. I used to pluck and remove the skin and the taste that we get right from the tree is almost ecstatic state. What I am trying to tell, that is called practical knowledge. So the knowledge must be connected with reality and as I just now mentioned, Swami Brahmanandaji connected Himalayas as real. He became one with Himalayas. That is called reality. You eat something and then you become one with that something and then you experience that something. That is called reality. Sri Ramakrishna funnily illustrated this that every year the pundits make an almanac and the almanac predicts this year say 20 inches of rain will fall in this area and then Sri Ramakrishna was telling you can squeeze the almanac as much as you want, not a drop of water will come. That means the knowledge is there, you have to wait for that. So Narada has plenty of intellectual knowledge, theoretical information but he has not become one with it. That means he had not become practical and the self of these things is beyond him. So Sri Ramakrishna again illustrates. He says you see one must practice spiritual discipline to understand this correctly. Suppose there are treasures in a room. If you want to see them and lay hold of them, you must take the trouble to get the key. First unlock the door. After that you must open the box, take the treasure out. But suppose the room is locked and standing outside the door, you say to yourself here I have opened the door. Now I have broken the lock of the chest. Now I have taken out the treasure. Such a brooding near the door will not enable you to achieve anything. You must practice discipline and that is what Sanat Kumara was advocating. Sri Ramakrishna gives another illustration. This time on what is called Siddhi or an intoxicating something. Therefore at the beginning aspirant should go into solitude now and then. Spiritual discipline is necessary. You want to eat rice. Suppose you sit down somewhere and go on thinking wood contains fire. Fire cooks rice. Here I am cooking it. Can saying it cook the rice? You must get two pieces of wood and by rubbing them together bring out the fire. By eating Siddhi alone one becomes intoxicated and feels happy. But suppose you have not eaten this stuff or done anything else with it. You simply sit down and mutter Siddhi, Siddhi. Will that intoxicate you or make you happy? This is what Sanat Kumara wants to say. You may learn a great deal from books but it is all futile if you have no love for God and no desire to realize Him. But fortunately Narada realized that and then Sri Ramakrishna says a mere pundit without discrimination and renunciation has his attention fixed on women and gold. The vultures so very high but their eyes are fixed on their charnel feet on rotting corpses. That alone is knowledge through which one is able to know God. All else is futile. Well what do you think about my saying? Sri Ramakrishna is asking. Sanat Kumara continues. This knowledge O Narada has not helped you for the simple reason that nothing can help us unless it becomes part of your being. Unless it is a part of yourself and the reason he gives nothing that is outside you can be of any help to you. If the mango is outside you it doesn't help you. Simple. You get the mango and peel it and eat it. Then it becomes, it goes inside you. That is anything different from you, separate from you, outside you, apart from you cannot be any help. Anything that is extraneous to ourselves is not going to free us from sorrow. And then he says what is the source of every sorrow? It is what is outside us. The body is outside us, the mind is outside us, our houses, our property, other people, their properties, entire creation. We must not forget our body and mind are outside us and that is an external self for you. It is not the real self of you. All this is information only. So he says but Nama should not be discontinued. Nama has an importance because it is the beginning of knowledge. Therefore meditate on name, make it your own and every piece of learning begins with the gathering of information. Suppose you want to know about a mango tree. Somebody tells you there is a mango tree and you want to get benefit. You get information and that information starts with what? With Nama. So this is the first stage towards the real knowledge of the things. So therefore the name of an object includes, what is the name of an object? It includes every kind of information about the object but it must be made real and especially one particular area. What is it? I am not happy. I am unhappy. In Vedantic terms it is called I have no peace of mind. Just hear aham bhagavan socha me. I am miserable, I am suffering, I am grieving and what is that is called binding, bound. When we are bound then we should know. How do we know? Because I am suffering and we want to become free from suffering. So we must know why we are bound. So Nama has helped. Oh this is called bondage. What is this bondage? Oh in Sri Ramakrishna's words lust and loka, money and sex that is the bondage. So every bondage has a limitation and that limitation has to be known in its true sense. That is called the beginning of discrimination. When we know Nama truly what happens? So so what is the Sanath Kumar advises Narada? Now you want to have peace of mind and I know what is the way. You are standing at the very bottom and the name of that bottom before climbing even the what is called second stair that is called Nama. That is not bad. It is a starting point. Find out and especially in spiritual life I am bound. Bound means limited. Limited means that which is not me. Whatever is external to me that is a bondage because I identify myself forgetting myself. I identify myself with that external. It could be body, it could be mind or in short aham, kara and mamakara. Whatever belongs to me which is body and mind and whatever belongs to this body, my house, my property, my riches, my bank balance etc. etc. So when we know Nama truly when we can discriminate and then do Upasana that is Brahma. What happens? So what is this Nama Upasana? Because Sanath Kumar is inculcating into the brain of Narada and I am taking time because if we understand this first section then very very easy to fly through the other sections. So what is it called? Nama Brahma. What is Nama Brahma? Every Nama, Nama means name indicates an object called Rupa. The word mango is a name that indicates the fruit called mango and mangoes are belonging to produced by mango tree and mango tree is produced by a mango seed. So it starts like that. Now what is the point? The point is that in this our creation billions and billions, countless billions are there. Billions of galaxies are there not to speak of individual object. The point is for a realized soul he knows that everything is Brahman. It is not Mithya. Mithya means only having partial knowledge that is called Mithya. But if I have complete knowledge it is none other than Brahman. So Nama Brahma means what? By uttering a name we are remembering an object and that object gives us the Rupa, the form. Every form has got some qualities of this color, of the size, of the sound, of the smell, of the touch etc. And all this Nama Rupa is nothing but only Brahman. This is what? Where did we learn this truth? In the sixth chapter. What is it? Sarvam khalv it idam sat eva. Everything is your existence. A mountain is. A tree is. A man is. What binds all of them together makes them uniform. That is called existence. If you look upon Nama and Rupa then you will not get harmony. But if you look at the Sat, this exists, that exists, everything exists and that is called Sat. Ekam eva advetiyam. When we reach that understanding Sat is Brahman. Sat is reality. Sat is pure knowledge. Sat is pure Ananda because what creates unhappiness is division. What creates happiness is union. This is a marvelous point we all have to remember. What do I mean? Suppose you know about a mango but you are ever separated from it. That separation only increases our sorrow. Therefore somehow you get the mango and then you eat in the way it is supposed to be eaten and the mango becomes you. You become the mango. How do we know? Because the mosquitoes can understand. This person has eaten lot of rasagullas and mangoes. His blood is much sweeter than the other persons. So anyway I am just making a little bit light. What it means is we must become one with it and the joy of that one will become ours in a way of speaking. So that is called Nama Brahma, Rupa Brahma. Everything is Brahman. Finally that is called Bhumananda. Everything is Brahman and another name for Brahman is Bhumananda or Sachidananda and that is where Sanathkumara wants to lead. So when we know Nama truly means as Brahman, what happens? Yo nama pramete upasate yavat nam noho gatam. So the principle of meditation or contemplation is this. Whatever be the object of our meditation that has to be taken as absolute. We must become one with it. Let us not think there is something higher until we become one with it and this is what Zen Buddhism specially wants to teach. A Zen master was sitting and one of his disciples by observing him found out always the Zen master is in the greatest state of happiness and whether it be summer, winter, rainy, whatever reason, people abuse him, people respect him, he is always happy. Then the disciple asked, Master, what is the secret of your happiness? And then the Zen master says very beautifully, expresses when it is summer, I say this is summer. When it is winter, I say this is winter. What does he mean? I hope you understood. He means that oh damned summer, damned winter, so hot, so cold, so uncomfortable, it should have been less, etc. No, it is summer, it will be like that. I accept it 100%. I do what best I can to protect myself but I do not deny the reality. I accept that reality. That is what we are talking. Accept the reality. And what is the reality? That sometimes good happens, sometimes not so good, sometimes happiness, sometimes unhappiness. This is the reality. So, good people, bad people, criticizing people, praising people, events which make us a little bit peaceful and events which can upset us. If we can learn accepting them, this is the reality. I am in this reality and I cannot change the world. So, let me accept it and do of course what best I can do under the circumstances and that is called Practical Vedanta. So, what happens when we do Nama Upasana as Brahma, then whatever our object of meditation, we must become one with it. Don't think of anything higher, anything lower because there is a law of Upasana. So, whatever one contemplates, he becomes that. So, what is the conclusion from this? If you see a castor oil face, you can easily guess what was his contemplation. Castor oil is the contemplation. If you see a joyous person, that means he must be thinking about joy. The point is that whatever object that we choose for our contemplation should be the only object that is called absoluteness. When we don't think of anything else beyond which it cannot go, that becomes absolute. This is known as Mantra Chaitanya. So, this absolute is only a name that we give to the best possible reach of the mind. So, wherever this Nama Brahma is there, if you take that Nama as Brahman, that means your information, you will be free to that extent. What does it mean practically? Suppose you are a master of, let us say, physics and then really, I am not talking about reality, you are really mastered, you thought about it like Einstein. It's a beautiful example. What is this example for? That he thought about relativity, he thought, he meditated on relativity, he became relativity and so the ideas have flashed and when he became one with that reality called relativity, then he obtained the real knowledge of the relativity and his writings, his speeches are only a minute, incomplete expression of what he knows because what a person knows is much, much vaster than what he can really express. So, this is wherever, this is information. Somebody knows music, all right, then wherever there is a music world and people who love music, then you are free. You know how to cook, etc, etc. So, you will be respected, you will be called for, you will be valued for that and people will do that even now they are doing it. So, for example, sometimes you know what you call efficiency teachers. So, how to make your life? There are some people who can convey these ideas very easily as it were and then they are called and then the students have to learn from them. So, whatever be our knowledge, we will be valued according to that knowledge and to that extent we become free, we are freely able to move there. So, another example is if I know physics and I don't know chemistry, I have no freedom to talk about chemistry. I can only talk about physics, which is my subject. So, what are we talking about? The result, if you can contemplate Inama, that means do not keep it as a theoretical knowledge, make it your own, you dream, you think and you work for it and that is what every researcher is trying to do, every true scientist is trying to do, then so far as that information realm is concerned, that scientist will be valued, he will be free to that extent and he will be respected and he will be provided all the happiness that that particular realm can afford. This is the result of Nama Brahma Upasam. That is what Sanat Kumara wants to say. So, he who meditates on a name as Brahman, that means he identified himself with it, not a separate subject, but I love this subject. Loving means becoming one with the other, so can of his own free will reach as far as the name or that particular knowledge reaches theory or knowledge reaches. He who meditates on a name as Brahman and we have to understand here something, so after that what happened to Narada, the Upanishad doesn't tell us, but we have to understand. So, he went, he practiced and he realized and then what happened supposing, I'm just adding a little bit, so Narada must have meditated, become one with all that he knew, then in the olden days many people used to come in quest of many subjects, all are not after God and therefore somebody must have recognized, here is a person who is a master of Kalas or Deva Vidya or Jyotishka Vidya, then people interested in them, they approach reverentially, Sir, please teach me and he is free, he can convey the same thing to the other people, he will be valued for that particular knowledge and Narada must have become valued for because he is a master of almost encyclopedic knowledge, so he must have done that and then he realized, what did he realize, I have got so much of freedom, I am valued, no doubt about it, but just as a person who climbs a small hill and then discovers there is a higher hill which is far more tall than the hill he was trying to climb but which obscured the other hill while climbing, now he discovers and he has a fresh desire, I want to climb that mountain also, hill also, like that Narada must have approached after practicing and then he asks, Asti Bhagvo Namno Bhuyayati, Bhagwan, is there something greater, subtler, more pervasive, more powerful than Nama and then Pada Sanathkumara say, yes of course, Namno Vava Bhuyah Asti, Namnaha, more than the name, there is something far superior and then Narada says, Tatme Bhagwan Praviti Iti, please teach me that one, so Sanathkumara, he says, yes, I will be doing that, there is something superior, far superior, superior means more pervasive which includes the Nama and which is more subtle and which is nearer to Brahman, the ultimate goal and that will give you much more freedom, much more joy, much more peace, everything much more and please teach me that and Sanathkumara simply will not teach and how like Prajapati says, you have asked the question, is there something else, yes, but you are not ready for it, go and do 32 years of Tapasya and then only he taught, Indra of course, not Virochana, so to this question of Narada, I will definitely teach and what is that superior to Nama, speech, expression by which information can be spread, so speech as Brahman, that is going to be in the second section which we will talk in our next class, Om Jananim Sharadaam Deveyam, Ramakrishnam Jagat Gurum, Pada Padme Tayo Sritva, Pranamami Mohur Mohuhu, may Ramakrishna, Holy Mother and Swami Vivekananda bless us all with Bhakti, Jai Ramakrishna.