Chandogya Upanishad Lecture 115 on 28-June-2025

Full Transcript (Not Corrected)

Oṁ jananīṁ śaradāṁ devīṁ rāmakṛṣṇam jagad-gurum pāda-padmetayōśritvā praṇamāmi-mohurumō

Oṁ āpyāyantu mamāṅgāni vākprāṇas cakṣuḥ śrutra-mathu bala-mindriyāṇi ca sarvāṇi sarvam brahmau paṇiṣadam

māham brahma nirākuriyām mā mā brahma nirākarot

anirākaraṇam astva nirākaraṇam me astu tadātmani nirate yau paṇiṣadsu dharmā

te mai santu te mai santu Oṁ śānti śānti śānti Hare Om

Oṁ may my limbs, speech, vital force, eyes, ears has also strength and all the organs become well developed

everything is the Brahman revealed in the Upanishads

may I not deny Brahman may not Brahman deny me

let there be no spurning of me by Brahman

let there be no rejection of Brahman by me

may all the virtues that are spoken of in the Upanishads repose in me

who I am engaged in the pursuit of the Self

may they repose in me

Oṁ, Peace, Peace, Peace be unto all

So we are studying the 12th section of the 8th chapter of the Chandogya Upanishad This is a dialogue between mainly Prajapati and Indra Prajapati wanted to teach about the real Self in this fourth stage of Indra's journey towards the realization of Brahman First stage, I am neither the Vishwa nor Virat Second stage, I am neither the Taijasa nor the Hiranyagarbha Third stage, I am neither the Prajna nor Ishvara and that which is enlivening all these three states yet far goes beyond the limitations of all these three states without which consciousness these three states cannot even exist and that state is what is called ashariri, incorporeal corporeal means sharira here sharira means we should not misunderstand only the physical body all the three bodies, the gross, the subtle as well as the causal

I am the sustainer, I am the creator, I am the sustainer, I am the dissoluter of all these three states yet without me they cannot be, but I can be without them so I am without a body what is the problem if one has a body or rather what is the problem if one thinks I am nothing but the body whichever of the bodies, gross, subtle or causal, it doesn't matter what is the problem, they are all limited even the deep sleep is limited, is limited by time, limited by experience, limited by awareness that is to say I am not aware, I am the supta purusha at least in the waking state we say we are in the waking state in the dream state also we don't say we are in the dream state we say that is our waking state only upon waking we have this distinction this is waking and that which I had gone through earlier is a dream state but in the deep sleep state, complete emergence of the body-mind therefore even to think I am in the sushukti, I the limited body that will not be possible, it cannot be experienced therefore it is limited and the result is bondage bondage means limitation

mithya means limitation unreal means limitation, limitation means change so this is what in this 12th section which we have seen earlier Prajapati was teaching step by step and in this 4th stage he wants to talk about this incorporeal asheriri sharir rahita, deh rahita, what was Prajapati teaching because earlier if you remember when Indra returned for the third time and then why did you return? he was asked by Prajapati

he narrates I don't see any good because this is also limited as if I never existed at all it is like death or even worse than death and then after another 6 years or 5 years Prajapati says this is the final teaching, you are absolutely right what does Prajapati mean by you are right? means you are neither the waker nor the dreamer nor the sleeper you are somebody else and what is that somebody else? something that is called turiyam that is called atma, that is called brahman but first Prajapati wants to say if anybody is attached to the body

whichever body, whichever of these 3 bodies gross, subtle or causal and they are all mortals mortal means changing and it is also associated with painfulness how can sushukti be painful? If that doubt at all if it comes it should come by deep thinking suppose a person is very tired and he just goes into deep sleep and he forgets his tiredness, his pain, his worries and at that time for whatever reason if he had to be awakened suddenly and then it takes time for him to realize I have been suddenly interrupted in my state of deep sleep

and it is very painful my body, mind have not yet got that rest so long as we are in the deep sleep state that's fine but if it is interrupted then problem will come and many times we are interrupted only so this is what Prajapati wants to reaffirm along with Indra's own experience Oh Indra, this body is mortal remember body means all the three bodies always held by death death means they are going to come to an end the death of waking is called dream the death of dream is called deep sleep the death of deep sleep is called the waking up Prajapati continues but it is this very body it is the abode of the self which is immortal and incorporeal and this embodied self is the victim of pleasure and pain so long as one is identified with the body there is no cessation of pleasure and pain but now he comes

if one somehow realizes I am not a Sheriri neither the waker, nor dreamer, nor sleeper then neither pleasure nor pain touches one who is not identified with the body and what is this state? why do we question what is this state? this very question presupposes

if a person is in Nirvikalpa Samadhi he doesn't say now I am free from all pains and pleasures I am not related am not attached to anybody but it applies to a Jivan Mukta so this is the state of Jivan Mukta and what is Jivan Mukta? liberation while still the body and mind are functioning don't say we are living Jivan Mukta is living again we will fall into the same trap that he knows I am the body and mind no, for us he is living for him there is absolutely no identity with the body and mind that is why Sri Ramakrishna used to say

this rarely used to say I and when Sri Ramakrishna says I we have to understand what he means by that I when we say I that is completely different when Sri Ramakrishna or Holy Mother says am I they mean totally different so this is the core teaching of this 12th section

that the true Satyam, Manam, Anantam Brahma is incorporeal, ashariri so Prajapati wants to illustrate which brings us to the mantra too he gives examples for the ease of understanding so he says you see when the rainy season comes four things are there we experience we experience wind we experience the cloud experience the lightening and we experience the thunder and Prajapati says all these are asharirani etani so beginning with vayuhu ashariraha the air is bodiless abram means white cloud that is also bodiless

vidyut means lightning that is also bodiless stanayitnu hu means thunder that is also bodiless but where from they have come they must be somewhere whatever we experience it cannot simply appear even magic cannot appear without the magician

no magic can be there and not only the magician he also requires peculiar shirt peculiar hat peculiar staff everything is needed then only he can transform so if you see something it is not there first time it is appearing it was somewhere at some other point

but now it became manifest that's what Bhagwan Krishna wants to tell that all of us are coming only avyakta adhi ni bhutani vyakta madhyani bharata avyakta nidanani eva tatra ka paridevana so Arjuna you were born nobody knew about you that is called avyakta

unmanifest and you were born everybody can experience you to some extent at least and then there will come a time and that is called death then you give up this body and then you go back from where you came so this was the example through these four concrete examples he wants to prove that that which comes from avyakta or unmanifest cannot have any form whatever has form name, utility that is vyakta manifest but anything that is manifest must come from avyakta another example our empty numbers quoted example

there cannot be any pot without clay, mud because clay doesn't have any form that which is capable of producing any form must be formless very interesting suppose you look out huge maidan, open space what do you call it? maidan, open space what do you mean by that? you mean you don't call it a house you don't call it a factory you don't call by any name because it doesn't have any form so then you put even if you put four poles and cover it thatched roof thatched walls etc immediately, oh that is a house immediately you say

it is meant it may be a store house may be a living house, may be a factory but before there was nothing open, now it is closed enclosed, like that we have come from there and manifest without name, form, utility and in between for a very short time we are manifest

and to make this point easily understandable by people like us Prajapati gives these four examples when the rainy season comes all these four appear so the question now is where from they are coming? because they just appear and then they disappear in summer season rarely you see, excepting a few clouds but come rainy season you will see everything so the lightening where was this lightening? it must be, because whatever is existing even the avyakta must be existing it must be there so where were they existing? they are all existing in the form of the sun the very embodiment of light and heat so only in particular season because of the atmospheric climate changes they appear suddenly and even rain also there is a beautiful example, rain also where from it has come?

nobody knows and then it makes oceans the circle brahmachakra continues so the wind is without body the cloud is without body the lightening is without body and the thunder is also without body now as these rising from yonder akasha and reaching the highest light

shine in their own forms what happens? after sometime whatever comes, goes whatever is born, dies appears, disappears now as these rising from yonder akasha akasha means what? we don't see, akasha means space space here represents especially the sun, we have to understand the sun why? because it is the sun only which is manifesting as the wind without sun there is no wind without the sun there are no clouds without the sun there is no lightening without the sun there is no thunder so there must be a sun and here the sun

is represented by what is called akasha or space now these rising from yonder akasha or the surya devata why do we say surya devata? because all these produce what we call heat therefore the source of all this is surya devata that is the idea here surya is equated with

hiranya garbha in the form of the sun because jyoti roopa is of the form of pure light so the core teaching is that the soul is incorporeal therefore we may not see the self but it is always within us all this body all these bodies including the mind and the karana sarira

causal body all the three bodies arise from that unmanifest eternal reality called turiyam and they just manifest for a short time by the power of maya and then again they go back that was what maya and then again each soul is potentially divine and to illustrate this

further so when the winter comes especially autumn the sky is clear there are very few clouds no strong winds or storms only when summer begins temperature starts rising and slowly the clouds delightening the thunder and the strong winds everything high wind

everything occurs so what it means is only under certain circumstances we see these right similarly under certain circumstances created by the any season is comparable to maha maya because of this maya the bodies appear all the three bodies and they are

sustained by that and again they go back this is the teaching wonderful teaching that is the essence of the second mantra that is the essence that we are all turiyam but because of the mysterious power of maya we as if appearing as with form with name and with

desire and with instruments etc we came from her and we are sustained by her and when we go back into her shakti is also called saguna brahma that is the divine mother and as Ram krishna says call it saguna brahma nirguna brahma there is no difference at all

now we enter into the third mantra which already we have discussed so evam eva samprasado asmaad sharirad samutthaya paramjyotihi upasampadhyaya srenarupena inishpadhyate saguttamah purushah

now prajapati wants to teach about that turiyatma but instead of saying it is turiyatma he is calling here uttamapurushah like 15th chapter of the bhagavad gita where bhagavan declares himself I am purushottama because I am uttamapurushah so when a person understands I am not the waker, not the former, not this waker there is only one choice I am my own self, I am turiyam, even this word turiyam is only as contrasted with these three states of experience evam eva esha, so evam thus esha ha means this struggling potentially divine soul having crossed like indra understood through tapasya, through brahmacharya, under the able guidance of a teacher like indra he will progress, what is the progress, I am not neither the vishwa nor the taisesha nor the prajna neither the virat nor the

ranigarbha nor the eshwara when he reaches that state that is called turiyavastha it is not a state it is the state of be reality and then what happens, just as a person in deep sleep absolutely enjoys tremendous indescribable peace that is called samprasadha absolutely serene bhagavad gita describes this so beautifully prasade sarva dukha naam hani rasya upajayate prasanna chetrasohi ashu buddhi pariyavatishtate so completely divide, prasada means what, that state of serenity is called prasada and if we have faith

in god somebody gives us that prasada at least temporarily we should be able to experience that serenity at least for a short time so this is called the state of a realized soul and that is being described what happens when a person goes beyond the identity, freed himself

from these three states of identification, he is called mukta and then he is called evam vai, eva eshaha eshaha means this struggling soul now no more struggling he is a realized soul samprasada get into that permanent state of serenity peace, ananda what happens

asmat sarirat samuthayaso what happens only when a person realizes I am the turya, really speaking our liberation from the even the slightest attachment to any of these three bodies can happen of course we go on practicing I am not the physical body I am not the

mind, I am not the causal body that helps but the permanent state is reached that state of realization seals any further identification in these three bodies this is what is asmat sarirat samuthaya having been completely detached from the sarira, as I said all the three bodies param jyothi upasampadhyaya and that uttama purusha is also called here paranjyothi, that supreme light light of the lights, jyothi ra jyothi upasampadhyaya having become one with that jyothi, sampadhyaya upasampadhyaya means approaching it means becoming one with that paranjyothi, how do we know svena roopena he knows now this is my real nature, abhinish padhyate then he shines forth and that is called uttama purushaha so this is the state of realization, description beautiful description of the state of realization but what is the result, what happens and again we have to say this is a description of jivanmukta because we have to distinguish when a person merges in so called nirvikalpa samadhi, he doesn't there is no description etho vacho nivartante aprapya manasa

sahaa, from where the mind failing to fathom that supreme state of realization falls back, the mind cannot even imagine that state whatever the mind can imagine can be only within the realm of limitations of time, space and object, but this is beyond description

even Sri Ramakrishna one day promised I will describe now crystal clearly but he failed he failed because who is going to describe and to whom is he going to describe it is possible only when we have got at least that state that I am atman, I know it but you are also atman

there is still a sense of duality that is called brahma akara prithi so we presume this person for whatever reason he becomes a jivanmukta or another interpretation is this person this description of this person is for people like us that what do I get for that purpose to encourage them, to advertise them if you use this god realization then these are the benefits so what happens what result comes follow because we are utilitarians

satatra pariyeti yaksha kridhan brahma manaha sri virva, yanirva nati virva na upajanam smaran idam shariram sayatha prayogya acharane yukta evam eva ayam asmini sharire pranoyukta

there are two parts rather three parts in this third mantra sa means this jivanmukta mahapushya as if jivanmukta that is that state of indescribable bliss is going to be described so that we can grasp what the teacher wants to say this is what prajapati is trying his level best

saha this person who experienced that I am that turiyam or brahma or atman tatra tatra means in that state if he becomes a jivanmukta and he may not become jivanmukta but this description is to to inspire us to motivate us what does happen pariyati so this sri being

what happens in that state he moves about pariyati means as if he is moving here and there moving here means certain activities why because we know what is the state of activity and interestingly even the state of deep sleep is an activity waking state is an activity

clean state because it is a state every state is only an activity so even deep sleep is an activity pariyati means as if he is moving here like a child of a wealthy person huge mansion any number of toys but there is a deeper meaning very simple to understand

what does he do jakshan means eating delicious things whenever he wants whatever he wants however much he wants because in heaven there is no digestive problems so everything and it doesn't create any diabetic problem so any number of sweets you can eat and the moment you eat they are completely digested but I am trying to tell you that actually what is called just by drishti bhogena just by look and they derive as if they are getting all the essence all the happiness they don't need to eat they don't need to digest and sometimes

indigestion they have to suffer and sometimes they cannot take it out all these problems will not be there he enjoys everything without actually experiencing them like we do jakshat means eating why is this given because the greatest sense organ which binds us again and again is this rasanendriya power of taste power of eating even if somebody is told after few minutes you are going to eat says okay I am hungry now what do you want to eat so you give me some choice so your very favourite sweet you want some savoury you want

so even then he has to think what gives me the greatest pleasure so that's why we are slaves to especially two sense organs they dominate one is the act of sexual act of union second is eating among these two the chakravarti the emperor is eating so eating then kridan

playing because he has to digest what he has eaten ramamanaha completely happy like a baby under the watchful eyes of parents and grandparents goes on roaming here and there he wants to show everything what he can do sri birwa so this is the sexual appetite so if somebodyloves opposite sex so we have to say a man loves the woman woman loves the man whatever it is and their body have met or it may be platonic love also doesn't matter but this is the greatest pleasure every living creature gets this is the trick of the nature

prakriti or maya to make us work hard so there was a great author he has written what is called about this but why are we because this act of union is a very great exercise it is a tiresome act so I think it was Dawkinson so why do the selfish gene that is the name of the book so the maha maya says to man especially you go and have union with this opposite sex the man says why should I do it what do I get what wages will you give me then she is forced to say this man will not do what I want him to do unless I give him I will give you the greatest pleasure okay that is my wage so he is enthusiastically jumps into it so this is not a simple act of union it brings terrible change whole life we are chained and we have to work like donkeys to these children I am not discouraging but how much you just be realistic so this is the all the temptations of the sense organs or somebody wants to travel in a private jet private yacht whatever it is or some people love social society company means relatives here it means friends close really not every relative that there are some relatives

who needs to be killed en masse but those whom who give us happiness who wish our well at least we think they wish our welfare so such people so then so all these sense organs we want to enjoy and this person he will be enjoying it what do you mean by that so Jeevan Mukta is going to get married no you know how he enjoys he says for that the next sentence is very important now upajanam smaran idam shariram idam shariram this body smaran remembering remembering this body using this body and making it

play roam about ride vehicles etc etc no upajanam means that which is born because of the sexual union that is called upajanam and then this body is born and then he remembers oh I used to like this one so some once I tasted that sweet that taste still is

lingering on my tongue I would like to have it once more no no no he doesn't remember it who doesn't remember only realized Jeevan Mukta for all others he has you don't know I don't know what you feel simple experiment supposing we love each other and I hold your hand or I am rubbing your hand so you know my touch what type of experience is produced by my touch only you know I have no idea similarly what I feel by touching your body I will never know so we don't know we know only what we feel every one of us know what every one of us feel and therefore it is wrong to presume because I am happy you are also happy maybe you are thinking of murdering me I don't know so what does this mean a Jeevan Mukta doesn't remember the body then how is he going to eat how is he going to

have this union with the opposite sex how is he going to play how is he going on roaming about happily how is he going to ride vehicles so these few words upajanam na idam sariram upajanam idam sariram smaran remembering this body which is the result

of sexual union not remembering this body that means he doesn't have body identity that is why he is called ashariri he means remember Janaka maharaja was called videhamukta videha means deha means body videha means though he had a body

from our point of view he doesn't remember I have a body but this is to understand a realized soul a person who knows I am Praman for him every body is his body every sense organ is his sense organ every object is himself so he is the object he is the

he is the enjoyer he is the enjoyed what does it mean so if somebody is eating he feels I am eating remember sometimes our grandparents become very old and they become probably pure vedantin without any danta and they can't enjoy especially certain hard things hey cannot enjoy excepting semi liquids perhaps but when they see their grandchildren happily roaming around and with these grandparents overriding their children's restrictions they go on secretly giving chocolates and eclairs and sweets and everything that they want

and when these children are enjoying thoroughly they feel we are enjoying this is just an example every mother and the children are eating enjoying she knows I am enjoying if there is some sweet very less quantity but she gives everything to the children but she gets the happiness of all of them greater happiness even what they get that is what we have to understand every jeevan mukta identifies with everybody so that is what we see and I have quoted that Sriram Krishna was requested you pray to the mother so that you can eat

a little some little food can enter into your stomach then he because of their force he requested and then mother should are you not eating through all these mouths it was not Sri Krishna eating with all those mouths and you have to understand that way when the Durvasa Rishi came then they demanded food coming at untimely atithi demanded and they were hefty fellows they can eat probably 20 kg each of them like Bhima Sena then there was no option only God can save Krishna came took one small grain and said I am satisfied swallowed it said I am satisfied he belched also and he became identified with everybody if Durvasa was eating he would be feeling I am eating but he is in such an identity if he is eating he feels that others are also eating so it can be reverse way also a doubt may come

how could this six and half feet sturdy man is satisfied with one grain again we have to exercise our imagination Krishna not as a six and half feet man but a small insect like a mosquito and for a mosquito even one small grain for an ant one small grain rice boiled rice grain is more than full stomach why do you think that Krishna cannot assume that form that's what he said so what is meant anybody who is eating as if Jivan Mukta is eating anybody who is playing Jivan Mukta is playing anybody who is roaming happily Jivan Mukta is roaming and anybody any man and woman are having union Jivan Mukta is having anybody is riding first class plane presidential plane and who is riding Jivan Mukta because he cannot separate himself he has become a whole universe so he is riding and where can the

relatives go anybody is anybody who receives his friends and relatives with the greatest joy this Jivan Mukta is identifying with them and enjoying their thing and this is possible only when we forget our body so Jivan Mukta doesn't say I am this particular body everybody

is me that is what is so beautifully expressed in what is called many other and then what about this body then that's what in this third mantra Prajapati wants to explain so for all of us or even for a Jivan Mukta that body is there so when Bhagawan created this body it is Jada inert only existential part is there but Chit and Ananda parts are lacking so says that inert body inert mind cannot function so it requires something to function what is the first thing Prana Prana Prana means energy so Bhagawan entered into each of these instruments bodies and minds in the form of Prana where from the Prana has come this Prana is nothing but Hiranyagarbha Sutratma himself Ishwara himself so that is why wherever there is Prana there must be consciousness what is called that reflected consciousness

Chidavasa that Chidavasa that produces that enlivens the function of the Prana Prana enlivens the mind Prana enlivens the body Prana enlivens everything so even this Jivan Mukta if we are talking about Jivan Mukta he has a body even though he doesn't say he is the body but we say he has a body and so long as there is a Prana he is called a Jivan Mukta so to illustrate that one just likeAcharane Yuktaha so suppose there is a chariot a small vehicle and Prayogya means either a bullock or a horse and it is tied then that Jatka

or that riksha cycle riksha somebody has to pedal it so this what is called Ratha this body is called a chariot or any vehicle there must be either petrol or a horse or a bullock or a human being something or the other you remember in Africa when they were laying these railway lines railway inspectors these foreign Europeans they used to write and so many of these what is called the black people were employed to pull this on those railings so somebody has to pull that this is to illustrate that unless Prana is there the mind

will not function body will not function no activity is ever possible for that just as a small cart unless it is yoked to a horse or to a bullock or a donkey or a camel or a buffalo whatever it is in Rajasthan they use camels etc so whatever it is yatha prayogya acharna

yukta unless they are yoked these carts will not move our bodies and minds are comparable to those carts and this cart is able to function only because of prana and wherever there is prana there is chaitanya consciousness and where there is consciousness that alone makes us to think because the function of the mind is to think to cogitate to remember to come to a decision and then only activity is possible then only it goes the physical body you have to do this or not to do that etc so even though the body is there the jeevanmukta

never remembers the body but we ignorant people mistakenly think that the jeevanmukta is also aware like us identified with the body no that body has nothing to do with him on the contrary he is not tied to one particular body he is tied to every single object in this world

he is the subject he is the object he is both that is the meaning of this the result this third mantra that jeevanmukta enjoys everybody's enjoyment his is his enjoyment so because he is identified with everybody he is identified with everybody's body mind and some llustrations also will help us to understand them properly which we will do in our next class.

Om jananim sharadam devim ramakrishnanam jagadgurum vada padme dayosritva pranamaami mohor mohoho

May Sriramakrishna Holy Mother and Swami Vivekananda bless us all with bhakti

Jai Ramakrishna