Chandogya Upanishad 5.4 Introduction Lecture 163 on 13 December 2025

Full Transcript (Not Corrected)

Opening Invocation

ॐ जननीं सारदां देवीं रामकृष्णं जगदगुरुम पादपद्मे तयो: श्रित्वा प्रणमामि मुहुर्मुहु :

Om Jananim Saradam devim Ramakrishnam jagadgurum Padapadme tayoh shritva pranamami muhurmuhuh.

ॐ आप्यायन्तु ममाङ्गानि वाक्प्राणश्चक्षुः

श्रोत्रमथो बलमिन्द्रियाणि च सर्वाणि।

सर्वम् ब्रह्मोपनिषदम् माऽहं ब्रह्म

निराकुर्यां मा मा ब्रह्म

निराकरोद निराकरणमस्त्व निराकरणम् मेऽस्तु।

तदात्मनि निरते य उपनिषत्सु धर्मास्ते

मयि सन्तु ते मयि सन्तु।

ॐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः॥

oṃ āpyāyantu mamāṅgāni vākprāṇaścakṣuḥ

śrotramatho balamindriyāṇi ca sarvāṇi.

sarvam brahmopaniṣadam mā’haṃ brahma

nirākuryāṃ mā mā brahma

nirākaroda nirākaraṇamastva nirākaraṇam me’stu.

tadātmani nirate ya upaniṣatsu dharmāste

mayi santu te mayi santu.

oṃ śāntiḥ śāntiḥ śāntiḥ

Translation

May my limbs, speech, vital force, eyes, ears, as also strength and all the organs become well developed. Everything is the Brahman revealed in the Upanishads. May I not deny Brahman. May not Brahman deny me. Let there be no spurning of me by Brahman. Let there be no rejection of Brahman by me. May all the virtues that are spoken of in the Upanishads repose in me who am engaged in the pursuit of the Self. May they repose in me. Om. Peace. Peace. Peace be unto all.

Introduction to Pañcāgni Vidyā

We are studying the Pañcāgni Vidyā, that marvelous yajña sacrifice of the five fires. Five fires is a contemplative process, the secret of which has been lost to us. Most of the Vedic upāsanas, contemplations, we do not know how they were explained to people in those times by these great ṛṣis. We can only extract the essence and then try to apply it with regard to our own chosen deities.

So what we are discussing, this is called Pañcāgni Vidyā—how to meditate upon five types of fires. Every fire represents a yajña, a sacrifice.

The Concept of Sacrifice and Worship

What is a sacrifice? In modern times, what we call Īśvara pūjā, worship of God. What is worship of God? That it is you and your grace which alone creates this world, maintains this world and also takes us back into yourself. Everything is done by you. There is nothing else excepting you. This understanding is called worship. The more we really understand this concept, that is called progress in our worship or more devotion in the worship.

Another word for worship is this yajña. The content is the same.

Understanding Yajña: The Universal Sacrifice

So, in our last class, we have been discussing what is the concept of yajña. Everything is nothing but an act of sacrifice. And we also interpreted every sacrifice is of Brahman. Brahman creates this world—that is a sacrifice. Brahman maintains this world—that is a sacrifice. Brahman takes everything back unto himself—that is another sacrifice. Everything is a sacrifice.

Creation as Manifestation

So the concept: the whole creation is called an effect. Every effect is nothing but manifestation of the cause with names and forms. That's all.

So there is a dough to prepare bread or chapati or whatever. So it doesn't have specific name. But when we shape it in a particular way, especially Indians can understand it better. If it is a round shape, round form, we call it chapati. If it is a triangular shape, more often it is called a parota. If it is done, wrapped around some vegetable, so we call it a vegetable parota or popular name samosa. But the material is slightly different. It doesn't matter.

So the cause with names and forms is called creation, and the same creation without names and forms is called the cause. And throughout, it is nothing but God, or you can substitute it with the word Brahman. That is the idea.

Brahman and Śakti

So everything, whether God is with activity or without activity, as Śrī Rāmakṛṣṇa explains: God without activity is called Brahman. And the same Brahman with activity is called Śakti. And Śrī Rāmakṛṣṇa gives a beautiful illustration. A snake, motionless, can be compared to Brahman for easiness of understanding. And the same snake, when it tries to move in a zigzag way, that is called Śakti. One and the same. We are judging it from our point of view. When we see activity, we call the same reality Śakti. Without activity, we call it pure consciousness or Brahman.

Ahaṃkāra and Aham: Limited and Unlimited Self

The point is, I do not exist, you do not exist. So when I think I am the individual, that is called ahaṃkāra. And when I think that only Sat-Cit-Ānanda exists, that is called aham. Aham is another name for Brahman. But the moment I add to it some limitation, forms, names, qualities, we call it ahaṃkāra. And ahaṃkāra makes us feel we are limited. Truly we are not limited, but it makes us feel.

And therefore, the goal of life is said to be to remove this limitedness. And whatever we do, whether we are totally attached to the world or whether we are attached to God, the ultimate goal expresses a removal of limitation.

Expansion and Limitation

So is a worldly person also trying to become unlimited? Yes. When a man says that I have one house, I need two houses, he is trying to expand himself. When a person says, I am alone, I want to love somebody and I want to get married, that is an expansion. And with each child, it becomes more expansion. So, slowly we expand.

But physical expansion is a limitation. Mental expansion has a limitation. It is only spiritual expansion that would be truly unlimited. So to know that I am not form, I am not name, I am not utility, that is called pure aham. And all these words are used only when we are in the state of ignorance. That is what we need to understand.

The Eternal Līlā: Creation, Preservation, and Dissolution

So all sṛṣṭi, sthiti and laya is a great sacrifice going on. And who is doing the sacrifice? Brahman himself. Everything is Brahman. And what should be our goal or our role? We should participate in this eternal līlā. And once we do that, there would be no limitation. And for that purpose, certain procedures are outlined. And one of those procedures is called Pañcāgni Vidyā.

Understanding Birth and Death

But here, in this Pañcāgni Vidyā which we are studying at present, there is no birth suddenly, there is no death suddenly. So from the unmanifest, when something comes into manifestation, that is called birth. And that which is manifest goes back into the unmanifest. That is called death. So, there is no real birth or death.

We are not really frightened of death, but we think we lose everything that we are attached to. In fact, when someone is suffering terribly, we consciously pray, let me die as quickly as possible. It's not because we are philosophers, because we want to escape the suffering.

But truth is, the Upaniṣads, the scriptures tell us, they say everything. They say, my child, there is no birth, there is no death. It is an eternally revolving, evolving cycle, Brahmacakra. So where from does the child come? After death, wherever the person has gone, from there again, to come to manifest his divinity more, so he takes birth. The only purpose of life is to get nearer and nearer to our real nature.

The Path to Self-Knowledge

So further, that is the essence of the Upaniṣads. And here, how to attain to that self-knowledge? How do I come to know I am Brahman? For that purpose, certain sādhanas, spiritual practices have been enumerated. And as I said, earlier it was called the concept of yajña. At first it was a physical yajña. Then it became a mental yajña. And in one of the āśramas, we are supposed to do these mental sacrifices. And that is being highlighted in this particular fifth chapter of the Chāndogya Upaniṣad, fifth chapter, third section.

The Story of Śvetaketu and King Pravāhaṇa Jaivali

So, there were—we know this story, you recollect—there was a great person, learned person, not very learned, but quite learned, and he approached one king, and this boy was a Brāhmaṇa called Śvetaketu. He was the son of Gautama. And then, perhaps, he was arrogant, and the king was much more learned, not university professor-like, but by practicing these things and by realizing the results of these practices, so a great spiritual personality.

Śvetaketu was perhaps—not perhaps, really—arrogant. And then the king wanted to enlighten him. The purpose is to make him understand: your knowledge so far as you have gained is fine, but that's not sufficient to make your life more fruitful. What Victor Frankl calls "man's search for meaning"—a marvelous book—and that can be applied to every one of our endeavors. We are all searching. What is the meaning? What is the meaning? To know that each soul is potentially divine. Then the quest will come to an end.

The Five Questions

So this Śvetaketu was asked with the purpose, express purpose of making him understand your learning is not complete, but if you are humble enough, if you are earnest enough, I can teach you. Because the king would not have asked him if he was not mentally prepared to teach him. He asked five questions. And that is with regard to that: birth is only one link in this universal life. There is nothing called death. Everything is life. Everything is evolving.

And Charles Darwin stumbled upon this truth or half-truth that all creatures evolve. That is how we have this word "evolution." Somehow, when a small creature feels its inadequacy, it earnestly desires, forces itself to desire, more or less limitedness, more expansion. That desire itself, that mental thought, that deep desire shapes its future body.

Example of Evolution: The Giraffe

For example, they say the famous, what we now call giraffe. This giraffe was a very small animal and it had to eat leaves, etc. It was pure vegetarian and it was having very short neck and it could not reach higher branches. Those animals which were endowed with longer necks or height, more height, they were successful in surviving, but this could not survive.

And "I want to be sat. Asato mā sadgamaya" was very strong in this giraffe. And how came the other animal is having longer neck. Therefore, it can reach greater heights. Therefore, it can survive. I wish to be like that. So it went on and on. The final result of this evolutionary scale is the present giraffe.

So also the biologists tell us that every lower creature is evolving, albeit unconsciously, forced by that divinity, potential divinity. First the physical change will come, evolution will come, and correspondingly the mental evolution will come. And after a long time, the spiritual evolution also will come.

The Five Questions Posed to Śvetaketu

So what are these five questions? But in the essence, that there is nothing called death. In fact, there is nothing called life also, birth also. So what is it? A soul becomes limited for some reason, which we call because of avidyā or ignorance, ignorance of its own true nature. And it thinks, I am a small being, but the desire for expansion, to become perfect, limitless, pūrṇam, that doesn't disappear. So it goes on struggling in life.

With each life, it evolves into slightly higher, and then it stops, thinking I have achieved my goal, but then suffering, death, it teaches a lesson. I would like to overcome death. I died because I could not cope with the environment. So like that, until human birth is achieved, then the guṇas will take place—sattva, rajas, tamas.

Evolution Through the Varṇas

So the evolution of a human being from the Vedāntic perspective is described as the lowest: tamo guṇa is more dominant, which is called the fourth caste. And in the next stage of evolution, then there would be what you call a second step, that is a little more rajas, dominated by tamas—that is the third varṇa. Then he evolves further, and not that next birth itself, it may take several births. Slowly he learns his lesson, evolves, understands in intelligence and then a little bit of sattva guṇa becomes dominant but controlled by rajas. He becomes the second varṇa, popularly called Śūdra, Vaiśya, Kṣatriya.

And then he evolves further, then he becomes a Brāhmaṇa, where sattva dominates. Now he understands even the sattva guṇa had to be overcome because every guṇa is a limitation. Guṇa means actually bondage. Bondage means limitation.

The Path of Vānaprastha and Sannyāsa

So this person, first he is given crystal clear instruction: what is life, who am I and what are my duties, what am I expected to do—everything revolving around how am I going to know what really my true nature is. And then he learns these truths, tries to practice, and then in course of time he becomes disillusioned because he is disillusioned not only because he suffers, but because of his limitations. He understands I am limited because I am seeking something from outside. Everything that comes from outside is absolutely limited, changing and binding. Therefore, I want to evolve further.

So now, as it is said: Parāñci khāni vyatṛṇat svayambhū, tasmāt parāṅ paśyati nāntarātman. Ten kaścid dhīraḥ pratyagātmānam aikṣat āvṛtta-cakṣur amṛtatvam icchan.

So he becomes inward looking because whatever comes will go away. Whatever is born will die. But what is me, that will never go. My svarūpa, my svabhāva, my true nature will never depart from me. Therefore, this person tries to become himself. That trying to become himself is called Vānaprasthāśrama. And the methodology such a person adopts is called upāsanā. And the upāsanas we are discussing here is one such type of upāsanā.

And when this person succeeds, then he evolves into the other stage, higher stage, which is going beyond all limitations, which is called atyāśramī. Āśrama means limitation. Atyāśramī means going beyond all limitations. And that is, as we all know, sannyāsa āśrama. Sannyāsa means giving up false attachments and remain as one's own self. That is called sannyāsa, true sannyāsa.

Aṅganyāsa and Karanyāsa

Even in worship also, there is aṅganyāsa, karanyāsa. What does it mean? I explained many times. We have to remind ourselves of it. For example, karanyāsa. What is it? These hands are not mine. All along I have been thinking, this is my body. These hands are mine. These legs are mine, etc. That's a wrong notion. Actually, that is nothing but it belongs to the pañcabhūtas. Pañcabhūtas belong to Brahmā or Brahman. Brahmā belongs to Brahman. And so, therefore, I belong to Brahman. I am none other than Brahman.

So, this transference of "myness"—my hands, my legs, my body—saying it is thine and thou, that is called nyāsa. When a person completely succeeds in it, he is called sannyāsī. Now he knows. Only in human language, he knows Aham brahmāsmi. He doesn't say to himself, Aham brahmāsmi. We never say, "I am so." Every millisecond, we don't say, "I am so-and-so, I am so-and-so." Only when a second person comes, we are forced to say, "I am so-and-so."

So, therefore, this is one method, which one—Pañcāgni Vidyā, contemplation on the five fires—is to enlighten us. There is nothing called birth, nothing called death. It is the process of evolving towards self-knowledge.

The Five Questions in Detail

So, in order to provoke this arrogant Śvetaketu, the king, with the desire of enlightening him, with the desire of sharing his knowledge with this boy, asked five questions.

Question 1: Where Do Beings Go After Death?

What are the questions? Do you know, my boy, where created beings go above from here? That means after death, where does this person who has been living, who has become identified with parents, with wife, with husband, with children, family, friends, race, religion, language, cultural habits, food habits—in simple words, which we call jīvātmā—do you know where does this jīvātmā go? That means he is not dying, he is not becoming non-existent. He goes from where he came. So, do you know about that journey?

First question. "No, revered sir. I do not know."

Question 2: How Do They Return?

Second, do you know how they return again? He said, "No, revered sir."

Question 3: The Two Paths

So, do you know that there are two paths? You must have read about it. The path of darkness, the path of brightness, called Kṛṣṇa Mārga and Śukla Mārga, or otherwise, Kṛṣṇa Pakṣa or Kṛṣṇa Gati and Śukla Pakṣa or Śukla Gati. Do you know where these two part? He said, "No."

Profound questions. Karmaphala is indicated here. One travels according to the merit or demerit one acquired in this life. So this life is a marvelous opportunity for us either to evolve or to go back.

So, do you know where these two paths—of the gods and of the fathers? It is also called Devayāna and Pitṛyāṇa. Where they part? "No, revered sir."

Question 4: Why Is the Other World Not Filled Up?

Fourth question: Do you know why the other world is not filled up? "No, revered sir." Implying, do you know why this world also is not filled up? "No, revered sir."

Question 5: The Fifth Oblation

Then finally, do you know how, at the fifth oblation—which we are going to study—the liquid oblations, one comes to be designated as a man? That is to say, the birth. Do you know how, after death, where he goes and how long he stays? And then at the end, according to one's result of the past karma, again he has to quit wherever he went and he has to earn again vice and virtue, depending upon the actions. If a person wants to go up, he has to become a good person, obeying the scriptures. And if he behaves ignorantly, selfishly and tramples down the injunctions given by the scriptures, that person, he will have to go the other path, which is the path of return. That means again he has to go through the travels of being in the stomach of the mother for nine months, etc., etc.

Understanding the Fifth Oblation

So, what is this fifth question? What is the fifth oblation? When a male eats the food—because the food is the third oblation—and this man eats the food and he produces what is called the living seed for the propagation of the species, that is called the fourth fire, and that he has to give offer as oblation into the fifth fire, which is called the what we call the wife, or the children call the mother.

So, when that person offers that seed into the fire called the woman, then the baby comes out. Then we say, this baby is born. Why is he born? Because a man and a woman, they just got married and they had union and as a result, this person had come.

The Mystery of Birth

Not only that, do we know what type of child? Will it be male? Will it be female? You may have some doubt. "Oh, nowadays, scanning is possible. Even at the age of three months or so, we can know whether it is a male or a female."

But how much more ignorant or stupid we can be! But why should it be either a male or a female, or why should it be that this particular baby—in the same hospital, two women have given birth. One is born with a diamond spoon, another is born, no, natural spoon, maybe blind, may be disabled, may be autistic. We don't know. So, we call it accident. That is, those who follow the ignorant modern science call it śāstra, vijñāna śāstra.

And Śrī Rāmakṛṣṇa uses the word vijñāna in a totally different meaning. They think they know the answers. Only some scientists recognize this universe is a mysterious universe. We don't know why we are born. We don't know where we are going. We don't know how things happen. So, merely billions and trillions of things are out of our knowledge, out of our control. We don't know anything.

Even if you are reading the newspaper today, why this person is behaving in this way? Do we know? What we see is he is not, according to our concept, he is not behaving properly. But why is he behaving this way? Only our Vedas are answering that: previously he trained himself to be like this. He is not made to be born by some other devil or Satan or even God. And God decides with partiality, "I will put this baby into that womb, I will put this baby into that, I don't like this baby," etc. No, that perfect justice, perfect balance is there of which we are totally ignorant.

Śvetaketu's Response and Gautama's Humility

So, Pravāhaṇa Jaivali has put these questions and the answer is, "No indeed, revered sir." Now, what is this fifth oblation? What is the fifth oblation? Man offering—no husband nowadays will say, "This is a sacrifice, and I am doing a sacrifice, and my wife is a fire, and I am doing this." No, "I get pleasure, so I do it." And what comes out of the result? That also I don't know. The person doesn't know what he is talking about, because there are mysteries beyond any human grasp, because they are unseen, and therefore only this God can answer, and God does answer through the instrumentality of the scriptures.

So, the fifth oblation is the child-bearing aged woman. That is the understanding. So, do you know how at the fifth oblation, the liquid oblation come to be designated as man? Here "man" means not male. It could be male, it could be—"man" means human being. And the categorical answer is no.

So, this questioning and Śvetaketu answered, was forced to say, "No, I don't know," because he really did not know. Not only he doesn't know the answers, he doesn't even know the questions. Such a vidyā is existing, such mysteries are existing. First time he is hearing in his life.

Śvetaketu Confronts His Father

So, he became offended because he thought he was more learned. In fact, as I said, he might have gone to the king to exhibit his scholarship. Now, what happened? So, this person returned very agitated and he confronted his father and then he asked, "Why did you say that I am perfectly educated?"

"Why do you ask me like that?" the father asked.

Then the son explained, "These are the five questions that worthless king, rājanya bandhu, had asked me. I could not even answer one question." He should have added, "I could not even understand even one question." Because if you understand that question, there will be a curiosity, a longing to get the answer. But no, he doesn't know. But he was arrogant and "you are at fault."

Then the father, very humble man—look at the difference—he said, "My son, had I known, I would have also taught you that. But I do not know. And so, I will approach him. Let you also come." Śvetaketu refused.

So Gautama came. We have seen in our last class.

Gautama Approaches the King

So the king received him with great respect because the king was a kṣatriya and this Gautama was a Brāhmaṇa. And even in those days, Brāhmaṇas were supposed to be what Plato calls or what Socrates calls philosophers—great philosophers, not university professors, but those who are dedicated to know the truth of life, such philosophers.

The Spirit of True Discipleship

So then Gautama—humility made him approach the king, even though in social scale he was higher than the king. But he was determined to learn and "I will become a disciple."

See, we have to understand here, when he approached, how did he approach? Vidhivat upasannaḥ. At other places we see, he did not come with fewer samit pāṇiḥ, but he came with great humility. He was prepared. "I will sit at your lotus feet. You are my guru. Whoever teaches me higher things which I do not know, that person is my guru." Through that humility he came.

Of course, we know Śvetaketu frankly refused even to accompany his father. And whose loss it is? Had Śvetaketu known who is going to be the loser and how much he is going to lose, he would never have refused.

The King's Instructions

But Gautama came, he was received well. Now the king immediately understood why Gautama came and then he wanted to sit and learn. Until then that knowledge was known only to the kings. So he asked him to spend some time. That is, you have to prepare yourself. Like as I mentioned earlier, Indra and Virocana were asked to stay with the guru, serving the guru, observing the āśrama rules, regulations for 32 years. That is our tradition.

Nowadays, so many disciples approach, they take initiation, they become arrogant, and they lose faith. And then, "So somebody else knows better than me." And this kind of people want to advance in spiritual life. I don't know how they are going to do it. Anyway, I am just mentioning, by the way, if a person doesn't have faith in one person, a living person, a person present in front of him, then that person will have same type of attitude. He is ready to discard. First he will accept one aspect of God. "No, no, this aspect is inferior. The other one, that is much superior." He goes on changing and finally he understands, "I have achieved nothing." But one should be like a Kalaviya.

So coming back to our subject, Sādhi, King Pravāhaṇa Jaivali, asked Gautama, "Stay for some time." We don't know how much time. It may be one year, six months or few days, depending upon the purity and readiness, yogyatā, fitness of the disciple—sādhana catuṣṭaya sampannaḥ.

And then he asked him, but before that he asked, "Do you want any human wealth?" But Gautama had no desire. Maybe he was poor, but he was not prepared to accept. "I am a real thirsty student for higher knowledge." So he did not accept, like Naciketā did not accept the temptations offered by Yama Dharmarāja.

Preparation for the Teaching

And then the king understood, "There is some substance in this person." And then he told him, otherwise he would not have told him to stay. "You stay for some time and get prepared." So that period, what could have been that period? Because Gautama also has to observe, "Is this person really living in accordance with his knowledge or he is only an intellectually learned person?" Because true learning must transform the character of the student.

That is why this is a beautiful Sanskrit śloka: Vidyā dadāti vinayam. So the more a person obtains knowledge, the more humble he becomes, because that very obtainment of knowledge opens his eyes to further vast, unknowable things. It illumines—the further, deeper we go, then the more will be the darkness that we confront. And that brings humility.

But Pravāhaṇa Jaivali understood, "This is what is called a student who is ready to learn." That is what we have to understand. That is called approaching the guru in the proper spirit. And though it is not said like that, but we have to add from the other Upaniṣads like that: vidhivat upasanāya, tasmai hovāca.

So after some time, he called him and then he starts teaching.

The Teaching Begins: The Fourth Section

And this teaching starts in the fourth, caturtha khaṇḍaḥ, the fourth section of the fifth chapter of Chāndogya Upaniṣad. And we will read, as I said, the Sanskrit ślokas. We will go through them and then we will also get the essence of these mantras. Then the first one.

The First Fire: Heaven

What did Pravāhaṇa Jaivali do? He took up, first of all, how is a baby born? Is he just—the father and mother met and these two liquids have met and then it became a baby? No, that liquid, both liquids from the father and mother, have a long history of ancestry coming back from the last birth after their death in the last birth, according to their karmaphala, resultant of the actions. They have gone to various lokas. And then slowly they come down through five stages. They coming down will be through five stages. The fifth is only asked as the last question.

That is, what is that? Fifth. When the male and female unite, then the result will be the offspring, whether it is an animal or human being or whatever it is. But specifically, we are talking about the human beings. So, these two meet. Why do they meet? The male is also born, baby boy, and to some other parents, the baby girl is born. And they are destined to meet each other. So that they become the fourth and fifth oblations for the bringing forth of the further jīvas again from a deep unknown source.

The Journey Through Five Stages

And for the sake of our information, these stages, as if a person is coming down from the fifth floor to the fourth floor, third floor, second floor—only when the person comes to the first floor, those who are waiting at the first floor, they happen to meet this person. "Oh, we see you. We are happy to meet you or unhappy to meet you." And we will transact whatever is to be done. Because everything is a karma. Everything is a transaction. Every transaction is either for profit or loss.

What is profit? If the person's resultant actions, they result in happiness, then that is for profit. If they happen to be the opposite, unhappiness, suffering, then that would be as well a result of what the person has done in the past life.

The Perfect Arrangement

What am I trying to tell you? That everything in this world, like a piece of chess, like a chess master, everything is perfectly arranged. This baby had done this thing, good and bad. The other baby has done good and bad. Both of them will be born. And the baby is born to exhaust the karmaphala of the parents. And brothers and sisters, friends and enemies, the other villagers are the persons who are following same region, same religion, same language, etc. We are here to transact our business.

Which Śrī Rāmakṛṣṇa says, it is like a person going to a town to finish some job and then he got instructions. "And you are returning. These things are needed. Please bring." So everything is a transaction. Every action is a transaction. Every transaction inevitably ends either with a profit or with a loss. And as I said, profit means happiness and loss means unhappiness.

Even they are designed specifically for helping the person, the jīvātmā, to evolve. They are not meant like we think. "I am getting more money." No, that getting more money has a deeper, mysterious purpose, which is to help you either enjoy or suffer. And enjoyment or suffering are designed not per se for themselves, but to make us evolve further.

So until we go back to God, the causeless cause, the real source, there is no way that this process, cycle of transmigration comes to an end.

The First Fire: Description from the Chāndogya Upaniṣad

So the teaching starts in this caturtha khaṇḍaḥ:

Asau vai loka, Gautama, agniḥ. Tasya āditya eva samit, raśmayo dhūmaḥ, ahar arciḥ, candramā aṅgārāḥ, nakṣatrāṇi vispaliṅgāḥ.

Clarification on the Structure

Before I go further, I want to clarify certain points here so that they are applicable to all the descriptions of the other four fires. This is one of the fires, the last fire. And instead of answering the first question, this Pravāhaṇa is answering the last question.

So the birth of a baby, male or female, it depends—after his last death. So he had gone somewhere and Hinduism believes maybe he had gone to a higher loka or lower loka, whatever it is. We have to understand not only higher loka, but correspondingly lower loka. And then at the exhaustion of certain karmaphala, for further evolution, they have to be born again.

The First Point: Birth Is Not Accidental

So what is the first point? A baby is not born accidentally. Baby is born according to certain scheme. And that scheme is going to be given in detail for us. And as I said, we must have faith in what the scripture tells.

That is what we call sometimes, "Why is a baby such a cruel person?" We can see, observe from the very beginning. "Why is the other person exhibiting characteristics of a saint? Why is some babies bring so much of joy? Why is even parents were tortured, killed?"—because of the karma for their own karma, of course, but the children become the instruments for that.

The Importance of Understanding

These beautiful subjects I wish to discuss in some detail, even though some of the ideas will be repetitions, but repetitions are always good. Otherwise, what happens? If I take up another scripture, another Upaniṣad, same ideas will evolve. So, whatever we are understanding, let us try to connect what we understand so far, put in modern language.

Closing Prayer