Chandogya Upanishad 5.3.1-5 Lecture 160 on 30 November 2025

Full Transcript (Not Corrected)

Opening Invocation

ॐ जननीं सारदां देवीं रामकृष्णं जगदगुरुम पादपद्मे तयो: श्रित्वा प्रणमामि मुहुर्मुहु :

Om Jananim Saradam devim Ramakrishnam jagadgurum Padapadme tayoh shritva pranamami muhurmuhuh.

ॐ आप्यायन्तु ममाङ्गानि वाक्प्राणश्चक्षुः

श्रोत्रमथो बलमिन्द्रियाणि च सर्वाणि।

सर्वम् ब्रह्मोपनिषदम् माऽहं ब्रह्म

निराकुर्यां मा मा ब्रह्म

निराकरोद निराकरणमस्त्व निराकरणम् मेऽस्तु।

तदात्मनि निरते य उपनिषत्सु धर्मास्ते

मयि सन्तु ते मयि सन्तु।

ॐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः॥

oṃ āpyāyantu mamāṅgāni vākprāṇaścakṣuḥ

śrotramatho balamindriyāṇi ca sarvāṇi.

sarvam brahmopaniṣadam mā’haṃ brahma

nirākuryāṃ mā mā brahma

nirākaroda nirākaraṇamastva nirākaraṇam me’stu.

tadātmani nirate ya upaniṣatsu dharmāste

mayi santu te mayi santu.

oṃ śāntiḥ śāntiḥ śāntiḥ

Translation

May my limbs, speech, vital force, eyes, ears, as also strength and all the organs become well developed. Everything is the Brahman revealed in the Upanishads. May I not deny Brahman. May not Brahman deny me. Let there be no spurning of me by Brahman. Let there be no rejection of Brahman by me. May all the virtues that are spoken of in the Upanishads repose in me who am engaged in the pursuit of the Self. May they repose in me. Om. Peace. Peace. Peace be unto all.

A Teaching Incident from Śrī Rāmakṛṣṇa's Life

There is a beautiful incident in the life of Śrī Rāmakṛṣṇa. Once a devotee came and complained to Śrī Rāmakṛṣṇa: "I am suffering so much. Why does God make me suffer so much?"

Instead of answering, Śrī Rāmakṛṣṇa asked, put a counter question: "Who are you, sir?"

And that is what we have been discussing. We were studying the Panchāgni Vidyā, which is a most marvelous concept.

The Concept of Yajña

So what is this concept of Yajña? All Sṛṣṭi, Sthiti and Laya on the part of Brahman is a Yajña. Because from the state of Brahman—Nirguṇa, Nirākāra Brahman—he had become Sākāra, Saguṇa Brahman. That is called Sṛṣṭi, Sthiti and Laya on our part.

We are also none other than Brahman. But he deluded himself: "I am not one. I am infinite number of jīvas, living as well as non-living also."

So our birth, our sustenance and our death—they are also part of the Yajña. What is the concept? Everything is Yajña, whether we are aware of it or not. And this Yajña is being done by Brahman. Everything is Brahman doing Yajña all the time. I, you, we—nothing exists excepting Brahman.

The Dream Analogy

How to understand this? So the Bhāṣyakāras, the Ācāryas, they give the analogy of a dream where we convert all our imaginations. We create, we become the creator, Saguṇa Brahman of our dream world. And we become many.

I, the one waker, becomes infinite number of objects in my dream. And I am a friend of me. I am an enemy of me. I bring delight to me. I also bring unhappiness to myself. But as if someone else is doing something out of my control.

When we wake up, we understand: "I myself have made myself many. I created the world. I entered the world in the form of infinite number of living as well as non-living."

Don't forget: when you see a mountain, you yourself have become that mountain, which is called Jaḍa or lifeless. So that is the understanding we must have. Brahman has created this dream world which is, we think, very real—this entire creation.

Converting Our Life into Yajña

So what are we supposed to do? We are also supposed to convert every action into a Yajña. What is it? I am a participator in the Līlā of God. Who is thinking? Brahman is thinking. Who is moving the body? Brahman is moving the body. Who is making the mind think? It is the Brahman only.

And this idea has been put in the language of a devotee in the Durgā Saptaśatī:

Yā devī sarva-bhūteṣu śakti-rūpeṇa saṁsthitā

Buddhi-rūpeṇa saṁsthitā

Vidyā-rūpeṇa saṁsthitā

Vṛtti-rūpeṇa saṁsthitā

Bhrānti-rūpeṇa saṁsthitā, etc.

You are very loving—that is the Divine Mother manifesting. You are very active—that is the Divine Mother manifesting. You are intelligent—that is the Divine Mother manifesting. You are deluded—that is the Divine Mother manifesting. You are sleeping—that is the Divine Mother manifesting. You are awake.

You are only an instrument. And that instrument also, not you. It is also—the body is the Divine Mother.

So we can say:

Yā devī sarva-bhūteṣu śarīra-rūpeṇa, deha-rūpeṇa saṁsthitā

Mano-rūpeṇa saṁsthitā

Yā devī sarva-bhūteṣu jāgrat-rūpeṇa saṁsthitā

Svapna-rūpeṇa saṁsthitā

Suṣupti-rūpeṇa saṁsthitā

Then where do I, you, anybody come in? We do not exist at all. Everything is Brahman.

If we can think: Nāhaṁ nāhaṁ tvaṁ tvaṁ. As Śrī Rāmakṛṣṇa taught this great mantra: "Not I, not I, but Thou, but Thou."

That is called converting every action into a yajña. What would be the result? This type of sādhanā, thinking everything is God, removes ignorance and makes us free. Again, that is a will of God only.

The Teaching of Śiva Mānasa Pūjā

And this concept that everything is God is so beautifully brought out again in Śiva Mānasa Pūjā, 4th śloka, wherein the author—we do not know who was the author:

Ātmatvaṁ Girijā matiḥ sahacarāḥ prāṇāḥ śarīraṁ gṛhaṁ

Pūjā te viṣaya-upabhoga-racanā nidrā samādhi-sthitiḥ

Sañcāraḥ padayoḥ pradakṣiṇa-vidhiḥ stotrāṇi sarvā giro

Yadyat karma karomi tat tad akhilaṁ Śambho tava ārādhanam

Simple meaning is: "O Lord Śiva, you are my ātmā, my soul. And Devī Girijā—that is the Divine Mother, Pārvatī Devī—is my buddhi. And the Śiva Gaṇas, the companions or attendants of Śiva and Pārvatī, are my prāṇas. And my body is your temple. My interactions with the world are your worship. And my sleep is the state of Samādhi. My feet, when they are walking about, is doing Pradakṣiṇa, circumambulation to you. And if I speak, all my speech is your hymn, your praise. And whatever is done by this body and mind—that is called work—all that is your Ārādhanā, O Śambho."

This is the idea.

Karma Yoga and Līlā

So Swami Vivekananda, after hearing from Śrī Rāmakṛṣṇa: Śiva-jñāne jīva-sevā. And that is called Karma Yoga.

So Karma Yoga is nothing but converting our life into a continuous Yajña, which again is called a Līlā of God. This is also called participation in the Līlā of God.

And therefore, Swami Vivekananda hymned in his wonderful hymn, Khaṇḍana-bhava-bandhana. And it is all about the nature of an avatāra, description of an avatāra. That is why it is called Avatāra-stotram—not Rāmakṛṣṇa-stotram, but every avatāra, Avatāra-stotram.

And what does every avatāra do? So Prāṇārpaṇa, jagad-ātārāṇa, kṛntana, kālidore. Their very birth is a great Yajña in order to do good to the entire creation, which are themselves.

And same thing applies. That means we have to consider them, look upon others also. Who are the others? Holy Mother, Swamiji, direct disciples, their disciples—whoever has been sincerely devoted to Śrī Rāmakṛṣṇa, Holy Mother and Swamiji, and trying to perform this Karma Yoga. They are all that Prāṇārpaṇa, jagad-ātārāṇa.

We saw up to this in our last class.

Entering the Original Text

Now let us dive deep into the original text itself. Because it is quite a number of mantras are there. After that again, we will try to recollect the essence of what we had talked about.

The Story Begins

So the story begins. Once Śvetaketu, grandson of Aruṇa, came to the assembly of Pañcālas. And Pravāhaṇa Jaivali was the king. He was the son of Jīvala. Therefore he got the name Jaivali—like Daśaratha's son is called Daśarathi; Vasudeva's son is called Vāsudeva.

So this Pravāhaṇa was the king. That was his proper name. And his title is son of Jaivala.

So this king Pravāhaṇa—somehow this Śvetaketu, we do not know whether it is the same. Probably he is a different person. So he came to this sabhā, to this king. And the king saw him, received him very respectfully, because Śvetaketu was a Brāhmaṇa.

The Initial Question

And then he enquired. Because in age, he was very small. He said, "Kumāra"—addressed, the king addressed the Śvetaketu—"Kumāra, my boy, has your father instructed you well?" That was the question put by the king.

And what was the answer of Śvetaketu? "He has indeed prevailed, sir." So Śvetaketu also was very respectful now, for now. "He has indeed prevailed, sir. But he had—my father had instructed me, taught me very well." That means he had taught me all the important things in life.

Reflection on True Instruction

How many parents really instruct their children in what is the most essential thing? When we are talking about spiritual life, there are so many people who rebel against and say: "I don't believe in God. So if there was God, then this world would have been a most happy life. At least, as far as I am concerned, let the world go to dogs. But if he keeps me happy, healthy, then God exists. I am ready to believe. But if he makes other people very happy, but me very unhappy, I am not prepared to accept such a God."

Why am I saying this one? Because what do people see? They say: "So much of evil, so many wars, so much of oppression going on."

So is nobody happy in this world? Is everybody a fool? Is everybody an evil person? That can never be.

The Nature of This World

If we have a little bit of intellect which can impartially enquire into the nature of this world—that is, if we know how to apply logic, reason out well—then we can understand: this world is a mixture of good and evil, happiness and unhappiness, and good people and evil people. It is a mixture. So there must be happy people.

Even the person who says, "I am not happy." How did you know, sir, you are not happy? Because unless you are unhappy, you will not know what is called happiness. Unless you are happy, you will not know you are unhappy.

Your very knowledge, "I am not happy," is totally founded upon the foundation of the experience called, "I was a happy person." And when that changed, "I am experiencing unhappiness." A person who doesn't know what is white will never be able to recognize what is black. This is called logic.

The Greatness in the World

So not only that, look at this world. How many great people it has produced! Great scientists, great musicians, great statesmen, great writers, great poets, great sculptors. In practically every field, there were great people, there are great people, there will be great people. But our vision had become clouded.

Therefore, if we have to be impartial and pass judgement upon God, we have to look. Then we can alter our argument and say: "If God existed, why could not he make everybody happy? Everybody great?" Yes, I see so many people great, so many people very happy. But there are some people who are the opposite. So that should be a reasonable statement. But not to say the whole world is evil—that is not right to say. So this is how we have to understand.

The Laws of Life

So even if somebody says that "I do not believe in God," there are certain laws of life. You want to be healthy and you have to eat healthy food. Only healthy food can make a person healthy. Then of course exercise.

Then there is wonderful potentiality within each person. You just read the biographies of any great person, you will understand. Everybody, each one of us is unique. So we can also become great. May not be greatest, may not be equal to many other great people. But each one of us have got some potentiality. Let us develop that potentiality.

Not only that. When a person doesn't develop God-given potentiality—I'm not talking about divinity. I'm talking about what is called ordinary talent. Somebody can cook well. Somebody can sing well.

And how many people became great in this world? Not because everything was soft and smooth and favorable. Because superhuman, insurmountable obstacles—how many people had faced and they had the will, they had the desire to unfold their potentiality. And then they became great.

Greatness will not come simply dreaming about, simply thinking about. It will come only when we really strive to overcome our limitations and simply bring out the potentiality. Means that which is already within us but is not brought out. That is called potentiality.

Happiness Without Religious Belief

So even if somebody doesn't believe in God, doesn't want to speak about spiritual life—but everybody wants to be happy. There is no doubt about it.

And then every parent, anybody can tell others, instruct others: "You see, you don't need to believe in God. In fact, those who believe in God, most of them may be very unhappy people. But there are people who are very happy. They don't go on boasting, 'We believe in God.' But they know the laws of life. They follow the laws of life. And they prove that one can be a very happy person whatever be the circumstances, external or even internal."

The Example of Helen Keller

Just one example I want to give. So there was one lady called Helen. And she became blind at the age of two years or so. And she became—she overcame—she became deaf also. So she could not hear, she could not see, she could not speak. But irresistible willpower. So she went on struggling. And she became a famous author, lecturer and speaker. And she inspired millions of people. Whereas under the same conditions, many people, they lose all hope.

So even if somebody is not talking about God or spiritual life, and there is no need actually to talk about them—because my experience is, most of the religious, so-called spiritual or religious people are miserable people, whereas worldly people, at least to a great extent, they are happier people.

Redefining Spirituality

So we have to correct our wrong understanding about spirituality. What is spirituality? The attempt to manifest our potentialities and become more and more happy by manifesting them. That is what I define as spiritual life. And this can be accepted by anybody, not necessarily believers in God.

So in the olden days, people believed, especially Brāhmiṇs, in the Vedas, in the Upaniṣads. And Upaniṣads teach us these marvelous truths.

The Five Questions Begin

And that is what this Pravāhaṇa, Śrī Jaivali, enquired of this: "My boy, did your father instruct you in the very, what is called, right guidance? Did he give you right guidance about life? What is life? What is the goal of life? And how to live life?" These are the three most important questions.

So this is the questions that he asked: "Kumāra, anutvā śiśāt pitāyati." "Anuhi Bhagavatīti"—so what did Śvetaketu reply? "Anuhi Bhagava anu śiśāt." "I have been very well instructed and my father told me, I have instructed you very well."

Now the subject matter comes. So what is this? What was the first question he put? King Pravāhaṇa Jaivali, he is putting this question.

First Question: Where Do People Go After Death?

Vettha yata itaḥ ati prajāḥ prayantīti

This was the question: "Vettha"—that is, do you know? "Yata, itaḥ"—from this world. That means after death. "Ati" means after death. "Prajāḥ prayantīti"—do you know where people go after death?

Na Bhagavaḥ iti—"No sir, revered sir, I do not know." That means I have not been instructed.

Second Question: How Do They Return?

Vettha yathā punar āvartanta iti—"Do you know? Having departed, how they return again into this world of creation?"

Na Bhagavaḥ iti—"No sir, I do not know."

Third Question: The Two Paths

Vettha pathoḥ devayānasya pitṛyāṇasyajā yāvartana iti—"At least, do you know there are two paths? Have you heard their name? One is called Devayāna. It is also called Śukla Pakṣa. Another is called Pitṛyāṇa. This is called Kṛṣṇa Pakṣa. And these two, at some point of space, they separate."

So for some time, maybe a departed soul travels and both paths are going that way. But there will come a place where the Kṛṣṇa Pakṣa goes another way. The Śukla Pakṣa—or the path of the gods and the path of the ancestors—they part ways. "Yāvartana" means part ways. "Do you know?"

Na Bhagavaḥ iti—he said, "I do not know, sir."

Summary of the First Three Questions

"Do you know where created beings go after death from here?" "No, revered sir."

"Do you know how they return again?" "No, revered sir."

"Do you know the place of parting of the two paths—the path of the gods and the path of the fathers?" "No, revered sir."

The Truth About Death

This very mantra indicates a great truth. What is that truth? That death doesn't exist. Because if death means complete non-existence, the question of their going somewhere doesn't arise. The question of, again, their return to this world—that also doesn't arise.

Only if the jīva is alive, but he has just given up—it is like traveling from one place to another place. So if somebody, if I or you, will buy a ticket and go to some other country, do people say: "Oh, this person has died"? Will anybody say that? They don't say that. "Oh, he has gone to that place. He will be coming back. Maybe he will come back after 50 years. Maybe he will not come back. But he is there. He is not dead. He has not become non-existent."

The Law of Karma

And then, that is the first point: there is no death.

Second point: every jīva, according to the karma that he or she does, they get the exact results. So if somebody had led a very beautiful life, very virtuous life, he will go to the highest lokas depending on the degree of virtue the person had done. And then, how long he will stay? So long as, again, his karma-phala lasts. And then he will have to come back.

Until Brahma Loka—Bhagavad Gītā says, even if somebody attains to Brahma Loka because of extraordinary puṇyam, the person had to come back. Because only when a person knows Aham Brahmāsmi, then there is no coming, there is no going, there is no birth, there is no death.

Until that time, the person keeps on coming, making some progress through good and evil, through happiness and unhappiness. And by the way, happiness and unhappiness are only aids to make us desist from evil and to cultivate more goodwill and unselfishness. They are not meant to punish us, but they are meant to train us to travel in the right path.

So to all these questions, what was Śvetaketu's answer? "No, revered sir"—he is telling "revered sir," he must be fuming inside. So we have to understand.

Fourth Question: Why Is the Other World Never Full?

Then the questions did not stop.

Vettha yathā asau loko na sampūryata iti

Na Bhagavaḥ iti

Vettha yathā pañcamyām āhutau āpaḥ puruṣa-vacaso bhavanti iti

Na eva Bhagavaḥ iti

Further, Pravāhaṇa Jaivali is asking: "Do you know, my boy, why the other world is never filled up?" "No, revered sir."

Fifth Question: The Fifth Oblation

"Do you know how at the fifth oblation, the liquid oblations, unseen results of our own actions come to be designated as man?" "No indeed, revered sir."

We will talk about these oblations. That is what they are called Pañcāgni—five fires, faith, etc. So we will see about those things.

So for every question: "No, no, no, I do not know, I do not know, I do not know." That was the answer he gave.

Understanding Why the Other World Is Never Full

So Vettha yathā asau loko—"asau loko" means that higher world after death, when a jīva attains to that other world—na sampūryate. So supposing billions and billions and billions of jīvas go, but it is never full. Why is it not full? Do you know why it is never full?

Do you know why this earth is never full? There is never full. Those who know at least a smattering of science, they should know. There are billions and billions and billions of countless species of all sorts of lives, right from the one-celled to the most evolved human beings. Every species, there is an urge to propagate, to make them more and more. But why is it that there is enough space in every created world? You know what is the reason?

Nature's Balance

So the scientists tell us that when any species becomes too much beyond their capacity, they lose their capacity to survive because one species uncontrollably becomes huge. There will not be enough sustenance to keep them alive. So some natural disaster will take place. Some enemies will come.

So that's why there was some kind of rat-like—I forget the name—and their population simply explodes, billions of them. And there is no way that anybody is going to reduce them. What do they do? Something peculiar happens, which nobody is able to explain. No scientist can ever explain.

As soon as they grow up a little, they burrow deep inside the earth in holes, small holes. So as soon as their population explodes, on one fine morning—how it happens, nobody knows. On one single day, billions, millions of them just come out and travel towards the sea to commit suicide.

And on the way, jackals, wolves, dogs, wild dogs, birds—so many, they have their fill that the birds will be unable to fly because they have overeaten. And yet millions of them, they cannot die that way because there is no killer. So they travel and they reach the ocean. They cannot swim. They drown. They commit suicide, mass suicide.

Why do they do that? Nobody knows. But what is important for our talk: that nature keeps a balance. Every species is kept in balance. There are so many instances. I don't want to go—that will itself take several talks actually.

But the essence is very simple: Nature is alive. Nature is a Divine Mother. Any species grows bigger than its maintainable size. Some disaster takes place. It may be earthquake. It may be war. It may be pestilence. It may be flood. It may be famine. It may be anything. But immediately, the population comes down.

Study history. So many black plagues and all those things—centuries together, either war or plagues, etc., decimate the population and brings them under manageable size. That is a natural law that happens.

So that is why no world is completely filled. It doesn't be: "Oh, now we cannot accommodate even one single more person." No, no, no. No such thing like that. So something happens and everything is filled.

The Distribution Across Lokas

So also, everybody is not going to the highest loka. Though it is not mentioned, some people, they go to the lower lokas. Some people go to the higher worlds. How long do they stay? Not permanently. After that, they just come down so that they are given another opportunity. We are all given another opportunity to understand ourselves better, to understand what is life, understand what is the goal of life, understand what we need to do in life.

Swami Vivekananda's Teaching

And that is what Swami Vivekananda summarized in three sentences: Each soul is potentially divine, and the goal is to manifest this divinity. And this divinity can be manifested through the four faculties of action, of devotion, of mind control, of intellect. And we become free. This is the goal of life. And this is what we need to do.

And if we do not do it, sooner or later, nature catches hold of our neck and makes us do it. That is why Brahmacaryāśrama, Gṛhasthāśrama, Vānaprasthāśrama and Sannyāsāśrama are not options according to our choice. They are choiceless choice.

As we outgrow one Āśrama, we are naturally joined to the next higher Āśrama. And when we live properly, that Āśrama itself will throw us out, upward into the next higher Āśrama. Until everybody becomes a Sannyāsin, or until everybody manifests his divinity, knows Aham Brahmāsmi and becomes free, nature will not keep quiet.

The Evolutionary Escalator

That is why our Ācāryas have said: the whole of nature is nothing but an evolutionary escalator. It will not stop. But just like an escalator is a beautiful analogy—not only takes us up, it also brings us down. When we come down from God, forgetting God, forgetting our nature, that is called involution. And after some time, we have no choice but to go up. That is called evolution. This involution and evolution is Brahma Cakra going on all the time for eternity.

So what is our goal? To understand these questions. To obtain wisdom, which is getting the right answers to these questions. They are not questions merely put to Śvetaketu. They are questions that one of the greatest Ṛṣis in the form of this king is putting to each one of us.

The Fifth Fire Explained

So he says: "Do you know why that other world is never filled?" "No sir, I do not know."

"Do you know that at the fifth offering, the liquid offerings"—that is, liquid here means the seed of the man, which is called semen, and the seed of the woman, which is called the woman's seed. Both of them, ovum—both of them come together and the result will be the birth of a baby. Here "puruṣa" means birth of the baby. Puruṣa means every jīva. But here specifically, all these questions pertain to a human being.

"So how a human baby is born at the fifth fire, which is done with the liquid, this one. Do you know?"

For everything: "No, no, I do not know. No, no, I do not know. No, no, I do not know." This is going on. Five questions have been put.

Śvetaketu's Confrontation with His Father

Then the king turned towards Śvetaketu and he is directly addressing. Then Śvetaketu challenged his father, says he reached his place. And then he became very hesitated. Who? Śvetaketu. Because he could not answer even one question.

So he says, the king said that: "Why did you say I have been instructed by my father? Why did you say? For how can he—does not know these things? A person who does not know the answers to my questions, how dare he say I have been instructed?"

So Śvetaketu was distressed and came to his father. And then he addressed him, his father's place. Said: "Revered sir, without having instructed me properly, you said I have instructed you."

See, abruptly, without any introduction, Śvetaketu blurted out: "You have done something very wrong. Father, you did not instruct me, but you told me, 'You instructed me.' Why did you do that?"

The Father's Response

Naturally, what happened? The Upaniṣad does not tell us, but we have to guess. The father must have been astonished. Said: "Baba, I do not understand what you are asking. You tell me what happened."

"Okay, I went to this Pañcālas kingdom. There was this, what is called a worthless third-class king called Pravāhaṇa Jaivali. And he put me five questions. I could not answer even one single question. And I felt very bad because I am a Brāhmaṇa and he was a Kṣatriya. And he questioned me and I could not answer. But at the beginning, the king asked me, 'Are you well instructed?' I said, 'Yes, yes, my father has instructed me everything. I have become a living, walking encyclopaedia. I know everything.' Proudly I replied. Then he put five questions. I never heard these questions in my whole life. Even if I do not know the question, when I do not even know the question, how am I to answer those questions?"

Śvetaketu's Arrogance

And then he used the word "Rājanya-bandhu." That means insulting the Pravāhaṇa Jaivali. That means this Śvetaketu was full of egotism, full of pride. That means he was not a learned man.

Why do we say? Because there is a wise saying. It is called Subhāṣitam: Vidyā dadāti vinayam—the more a person becomes learned, the more humble that person becomes.

So he should have said: "I have been asked by the king, and he seems to know much better things than us. Even you did not know. So that is why you did not instruct me. Surely, as a father, if you had known, you would have definitely instructed."

But what was this? He confronted his father and said: "Why did you say that I have instructed you well? I went to this kingdom and he put me some questions. I could not answer even one single question."

That is going to be coming in this fifth mantra. This is a conversation, dialogue between Śvetaketu and his father, Aruṇa.

The Fifth Mantra: The Dialogue

So what was that? Śvetaketu was abusing that great king whose knowledge was superior. "So that nominal Kṣatriya—Rājanya-bandhu—asked me five questions, and I was not able to answer even one of them."

And then Śvetaketu must be glaring at his father.

Then the father said: "Even as you have spoken to me about them, you told me about all the five questions that king had asked you, so also I do not know even one of them. Because if I had known them, why should I not have instructed you? I myself am ignorant. Therefore, whatever I knew, I told you completely. I have not hidden anything. But this one of the questions—"

So it is not said in the mantra. But father must have asked: "Now tell me, what were the five questions that the king had asked you?" Because you could not reply even one of them. After hearing what were those five questions, then the father realized: "This is the first time I am also hearing those questions. So I do not know anything about these questions at all, answers—let alone answers. I never even heard about those questions."

This is the purport of this fifth mantra.

The Text of the Fifth Mantra

So Śvetaketu—Bazaar is complaining, shouting at his father:

Rājanya-bandhu, mā, pañca-praśnān apṛcchi

Teṣām ekam cana aśakam vivaktum iti

"Rājanya-bandhu"—that king, one of the worthless of these kings, not to be honored as a king. "Mā"—that means to me. "Pañca-praśnān apṛcchi"—he asked me five questions. "Pañca-praśna, teṣām"—of those questions. "Ekam cana aśakam vivaktum iti"—"na ekam." So of those five questions, "ekam api"—even one single question. "Aham"—me. "Aśakam vivaktum iti"—I could not answer even one.

Saha vācā—now "saha" means here, the father. After hearing this, "ha vācā"—he replied. "Yathā mā tvam tathā etan avadu"—that means father must have asked: "What were those five questions, my child?" And Śvetaketu must have told him.

He said: "Whatever questions you were asked, you narrated them to me." "Tan avadāḥ." "Yathā aham eṣām na ekam na veda"—"Just like you, 'aham'—me also. 'Eṣām'—of these five questions. 'Ekam api'—not even one question. 'Na ekam'—not even one question. 'Na veda'—I do not know." Father was telling.

Yadi aham imān avedaśyām—"If I knew about these five questions, and I know the answers also"—because here also we may know the question, but we may not know the answer. But both father and son, they never even heard about the questions, let alone the answers.

Kathaṁ te na avakṣam—"How could I refrain from instructing you? Whatever I knew, I told you. I also do not know. Therefore, I did not teach you."

Gautama's Humility and Decision

Therefore, what happens? Gautama was very humble. Vidyā dadāti vinayam.

Then he approached the king, and then he got instructed. So the father must have told: "My son, I also do not know. Let us both go together to that king, and then sit humbly at his feet. Learn."

Because there is a saying: a humble person is ready to learn even from an illiterate person. Even something very great wisdom can come out of the mouths of babes.

"So we do not know. I do not know. Therefore, I did not tell you. But I am prepared to sit at the feet of the king, even though I am a Brāhmaṇa, because I am thirsty of knowledge."

Śrī Rāmakṛṣṇa's Teaching

Supporting Śrī Rāmakṛṣṇa's words: "So long as I live, I learn."

Many of our devotees may be under a wrong impression: "Śrī Rāmakṛṣṇa is Sarvajña. He knows everything. So there was no need for him to learn everything."

No. Swami Śaradānandaji makes it crystal clear: As soon as Śrī Rāmakṛṣṇa—of course, by the Divine Mother's will—had approached Keśava Candra Sen, and through that the Brahmo Samāj, Śrī Rāmakṛṣṇa understood several things.

We will discuss these things in our next class.

Closing Prayer