Chandogya Upanishad 4.5 Lecture 136 on 07 September 2025 Q&A
Chandogya Upanishad Q&A Session with Swami Dayatmanandaji Maharaj - September 7, 2025
Question 1: Is There an Order to the Four Parts of Instruction?
Student A: Within these four parts of instructions, is there a krama? Is there an order in which these four are to be followed?
Maharaj: The Rishi had given this order. It makes no difference. If you follow one order of one part, you are forced to follow the same thing. Supposing you look towards the east. Do you see empty space, or do you see all the sun, the moon, the fire, the Samudra, the Prithvi, the plants? Do you see or you will not see?
Student A: I will see everything.
Maharaj: But detailed instructions are given. That marvellous teaching "everything is Brahman" is broken down into these methods. You can in fact use any Krama, you can use. Every order will include all the other three. For example, if you don't have Prana, will you be able to contemplate?
So this is the particular order this particular Rishi has given, but there is no such rule. Some other Rishi may take the fourth one, that is the Prana Devata. So it doesn't matter. Everything includes everything else.
Question 2: The Difference Between Agni Devata and Aditya Devata
Student A: And then the second and third parts, Maharaj, where Agni Devata and Aditya Devata come to teach. What is the chief difference between these two Devatas? They seem synonymous.
Maharaj: You see, who is being taught? An ignorant person. What is this ignorant person's experience? "I see the sun. I see the moon. I see the fire. I see the Samudra, lightning, lightning, whatever." Do I really see the same thing in everything?
So a relationship is created in enlightened mind, ready mind, that they are all interrelated. Now try to see same Brahman in all these things together. They are interrelated. The moment you say "this is my first brother, this is my second brother, this is my third sister, this is my fourth sister," they all related, same parents, isn't it?
Student A: Yes.
Maharaj: That is how the part leads to the whole. This is what is called unity and diversity. Swami Vivekananda used that word in his Jnana Yoga lectures.
Question 3: Seeing Parts as Whole - All Light as Brahman
Student B: My question is whether we should see the parts as a whole. We have the fire, we have the moon, we have the lightning, the sun, and should we take this as that Brahman is in all light, all light emanates from Brahman?
Maharaj: Correct. You touch any part of a human being's body, you are touching the whole human being. You touch any part of a river, you are touching everything that is called water.
Student B: Yes.
Maharaj: There is a interrelationship between. It may be a small pool, it may be coming dripping from your pipe in your kitchen, it doesn't matter. Ignorant people, they see only what they are experiencing, nothing beyond that. But thoughtful people will see that "where from this water is coming?" They collected it from a water collection area. Where from this water collection area got the water? From the rains. And where from the, how did the rains come? From the samudra.
Like that, from the lower limitation, we are slowly connecting and we are reaching higher and higher unlimitedness. That is the point here. From first step to second step, third step, etc., these are the aids.
Question 4: Correlation Between Chatushpada Teachings
Student C: See, we learned about Chatushpada here, and also in Mandukya Upanishad we had Chatushpada. So are these correlated?
Maharaj: No. That is not Chatushpada. That is four states of experience called waking, dream, deep sleep. And fourth is not a real state, but it is given to distinguish it from the other three, which is called Turiyavastha. So there, states of experience are given there. Here, the objects of experience are given. You see the point?
If your sight needs to be corrected, then the doctor prescribes you the correct glasses. So that is what is being described in the Mandukya Upanishad. But what objects you are seeing through this corrected glasses, that is being described here.