Chandogya Upanishad 4.11-12 Lecture 141 on 27 September 2025 Q&A

Q&A Session with Swami Dayatmanandaji Maharaj

Q1: The Three Fires and Their Meditation Goal

Student: Mahārāj, in the first fire which is Gārhapatyāgni and Dakṣiṇāgni, in both the upāsanās, the goal of meditation is only Hiraṇyagarbha. Correct? Because those agnis—the three agnis—are manifestations of Hiraṇyagarbha, and their further manifestations are what we have seen: the Akasha, Candrama, Diśā, the food, the Āditya, and all those things. So eight so far we have seen, but they all become one when they identify with Hiraṇyagarbha ?

Maharaj: The Gārhapatyāgni, Dakṣiṇāgni, Āhavanīyāgni—all of them will become Hiraṇyagarbha, Saguṇa Brahma. And they merge there because Hiraṇyagarbha is also considered as an effect, since he is a manifestation of Īśvara. Saguṇa Brahma is called Īśvara.

Īśvara manifests, or Saguṇa Brahma manifests, first in the form of Īśvara, which is the totality of the causal bodies. Then Īśvara slowly comes down, becomes grosser, and he is called the collective sūkṣma śarīras—all the minds. And then this Hiraṇyagarbha's further grosser manifestation is called Virāṭa, which represents the collective physical universe.

Everything that is there—my body, your body, a mosquito's body, every body, living and non-living—what a marvelous concept! This is what nowadays scientists are telling: the holistic view. That is what is being taught thousands of years back in the form of this. Every upāsanā is actually a holistic view.

Q2: Why Hiraṇyagarbha and Not Īśvara?

Student: Maharaj, even though they are not mentioning the word Hiraṇyagarbha, you have explained to us that this is in fact what Hiraṇyagarbha refers to. How can I understand this as Hiraṇyagarbha and not Īśvara ?

Maharaj: Because these are all things that are experienced. You can't experience Īśvara. You can be one with him, but just as we are talking, you are experiencing me, isn't it?

Student: Yes.

Maharaj: That way you can't experience Īśvara. Whatever is experienceable in the physical form, that is call Virat. Whatever we are experiencing in the mental or subtle form, that is called Hiraṇyagarbha. And if you are experiencing me in the form of anger or blessing or abusing, that is mental, isn't it?

Student: Yes, sir. That is called Hiraṇyagarbha.