Chandogya Upanishad 4.1.6-4.2.3 Lecture 130 on 17 August 2025 Q&A
Q&A Session with Swami D
Question 1: The King's Transformation Between Visits
Student: Maharaj, before the next class you said you'll talk about the nature of gifts in the next class, but before that I'm trying to understand what changed in the king between his first visit and the second visit from his state of mind.
Maharaj's Analysis of the King's Psychology
Maharaj: I told you the king must have went back, why did my guru reject me? Yeah. He must have thought first of all that maybe the king was telling that if I take these gifts, offerings etc. he will be pleased.
So sometimes the gurus test the disciples, they reject. That's why I told already such a great soul who had become one with Hiranyagarbha, his joy is incomparable. Yes.
Do you think such a person will be tempted by the gifts that were brought by the king? No. And do you think that such a person will be also tempted by the beautiful woman? Definitely not. No.
Understanding Spiritual Attainment and Temptation
Maharaj: So that is what we have to what is called because some of the doubts that come can be dangerous doubts whether temptations will come to those who have attained spiritual progress in life. Oh no. I'm just trying to... That is why we have to discuss these points, otherwise this story would have been finished in five minutes.
Question 2: The Meaning of Samitpani
Student: Maharaj, in previous classes, I think in Mundaka Upanishad, you have mentioned that when an earnest aspirant approaches guru, you have mentioned the word Samitpani. Yeah. So a king from where he is, he only can take whatever he understands to be valuable.
Understanding Samit and Ancient Customs
Maharaj: No, no. You have to understand what is the meaning of Samit. Samit means dried firewood because in those days, first of all, you understand there were two types of rishis.
Those who are sannyasins, those who are married people. Yajnavalkya was a married person or a sannyasi? Married person. Initially.
Student: Not only one, one wife. Two wives. Yes.
Maharaj: Just by making a bit of fun. Don't mind. Why did he want to take sannyasa? Is it because of his vidya or because he married two wives? A little bit, you know.
Maharaj: No, he was a very rich man. He loved both of them equally, but he was following Hindu varnashrama dharma because they want to set an example. He led householder's life and these are called vidvat sannyasa.
There are two types of sannyasa. One is for the sake of acquisition of spiritual knowledge, one will take sannyasa so that it will be convenient to practise spiritual disciplines. Some other people, somehow they have already become what is called men of knowledge.
They know through experience, not intellectually, not as scholars, but they want to keep that Hindu tradition that everybody's goal, final goal is what? Sannyasa. Lifestyle. So, he wanted to set an example, but the people who don't need any more knowledge because he was already having that knowledge.
How do we know? He taught to Janaka. He taught to Gargi, etc. He taught to his own wife Maitreyi, everything.
So, he wanted to lead an ideal sannyasa in his life as an example for other people. Sure.
The Example of Sri Ramakrishna
Student: Like the Ramakrishna keeping holy mother even after sannyasa.
Maharaj: Why did he keep? That's an example. To set an example for whom? For householders. How one should respect, treat one's own wife.
Even today, how many men treat their wives. Yes. Anyway.
So, there are some people how Naga Mahashaya used to treat his own wife. So, to keep the ideals, Hindu ideals bright, he wanted to take sannyasa. Anyway, coming back what it means.
Types of Sannyasa
Maharaj: This is called Vidwat Sannyasa. Vidwat means a person has realised God. But wants to keep the sannyasa ideal very high so that others also can follow it on.
That is called Vidwat Sannyasa. The other one, lower one is called Vivedesha Sannyasa. Okay.
What I'm trying to tell Raikwa was getting so much of happiness. Yes. Do you think he will get that kind of happiness even from householder's life? No.
Then, but he wanted for whatever reason in the olden days many of them were Rishis and how they led lives. Ramakrishna gives us a glimpse. Yes.
Anyway, that is what I wanted to discuss to clear any would be popping up doubts about this.
Question 3: Understanding the King's Approach to Raikwa
Student: Maharaj, when you cover, my questions are not about around Raikwa Maharaj. He is a realised soul. He doesn't have any problems. My questions are around the king's state of mind only. How he is approaching a realised soul. He is asking for Brahma Vidya and he is taking all these jewels and horses which don't make sense.
The Logic Behind the King's Gifts
Maharaj: Yes, it makes sense because if you are going to come to me, my Guru is a Sannyasi. So, I will take some ashes only. Fragrant ashes only to him.
So, what is meant is he wants his Guru to be a little more comfortable. Isn't it? Sure.
How was he living? Under a cart and what was his body condition? Yeah, some eczema, some skin condition. So, do you think that you teach me and I will practise and you will be like this only for your whole life? No, not like that. Maybe he came to know that he wants to lead a householder's life by God's will.
That is also possible. Okay.
The Test of Sincerity
Maharaj: But the commentators give us the hint. It is to test because Raikwa knew Jaanashruti was a fit person but was he really very sincere. So, he rejected and next time also you know what he increased?
Three things he increased. First of all, 600 golden coins, 600 cows. He brought another 400 he added and the golden necklace will be there. For whom? Because he was taking his daughter also. What is the man going to do with golden necklace?
And he gave him that village that belongs to me. Now, from now onwards you are the Jamindar. So, there must be a reason why such a person, to test the sincerity of the person, he must reject. In Zen stories we get like this plenty of stories.
Student: Okay, Maharaj.
Question 4: Vicarious vs. Aesthetic Enjoyment
Student: Is there a difference between vicarious enjoyment and aesthetic enjoyment or are they the same?
Categories of Enjoyment
Maharaj: We have divided all enjoyments into five categories.
Student: Yes, Maharaj.
Maharaj: So, Vishayananda, Medananda, Kalananda, Dharmananda and Brahmananda.
The Superiority of Aesthetic Sense
Maharaj: So, you have to understand, the moment a person has aesthetic sense, that person's mind is far superior even to an intellectual.
Clarification on Vicarious Enjoyment
Student: When we watch a good movie, Maharaj, we identify with those characters. Is there a difference between vicarious enjoyment and aesthetic enjoyment?
Maharaj: This vicarious enjoyment is always at a lower level. You can't have vicarious intellectual enjoyment. I will pretend to be a great Einstein. No, that's not possible. Much less, vicarious aesthetic enjoyment.
A Humorous Illustration
Maharaj: Anyway, I remember a joke. There was an art exhibition. A fat American woman also attended. The moment she opened the door, there was that door and then she called somebody from inside and said, this most wonderful, beautiful aesthetic object, how much does it cost?
The attendant bowed down and said, madam, that is the doorknob. A person can't distinguish between the painting and the doorknob. If that is what you are referring as aesthetic enjoyment, I don't know what you mean.
Student: That makes sense, Maharaj. Thank you!