Brihadaranyaka Upanishad Ch.3 Lecture 78 on 18 October 2026 Q&A

Discussion on Reasoning, Avarana and Vikshepa Shakti, and the Ego

Question 1: Sri Ramakrishna Asked M. Not to Reason — In What Condition Should We Reason?

Participant: About reasoning, Sri Ramakrishna asked M. not to reason. So with respect to reasoning, in what condition should we really reason?

The Three Types of Vada: Jalpa, Vada, and Vitanda

Response (Maharaj): I mentioned three types of vada. Jalpa, vada, and vitanda.

So jalpa means to suppress, oppress the opposite party and feel that my own thinking is the best thinking. It is not seeking the truth. It is just "I want to defeat the opponent." That's all.

And vitanda is just – neither are you reasoning with the other. Even if the other person is rational, you will not accept. You will call him by names. You shout. That is called vitanda.

But vada means both of us want to come to know what is the truth. For that we will have a discussion. Now Sri Ramakrishna was not against this vada.

Reasoning Cannot Establish God's Existence

Response: But maybe M had – I think he had the understanding that intellectually, through deep thinking, etcetera, one can understand God or even the existence of God. In fact, I can tell you that if you use reasoning, every reasoning proves that God doesn't exist. First – second conclusion we will come to. If we use reasoning, not only does He not exist, He should not exist. Do you understand? He is the most evil being in the whole world. So our thinking like that – so many people who think like that.

And third reason is that reasoning has to be used to further advance in our pathways. It is not meant only to talk about scholarly talks.

Sri Ramakrishna Did Not Discourage Thinking

Response: So Sri Ramakrishna never discouraged anybody. He did not say, "You just shut off your minds; whatever I am cramming into your brains, you just accept without thinking."

There are instances also. Once Sri Ramakrishna was holding a discussion under Panchavati, and then one person went there. Maybe it was rainy season. He took his umbrella there, and then he forgot the umbrella and went away. And Sri Ramakrishna immediately noticed it and brought it to his room and said, "Who has left it? Who has forgotten?" Ah, I think that is that fellow who has followed my words without understanding anything.

Narendranath and the Use of Vada

Response: So you see – and when Sri Ramakrishna used to talk with Narendranath, he used vada. But then you also have to remember: Narendranath used to argue – "All these visions you are describing are figments of your imagination."

Sri Ramakrishna was a tremendous drama person. He was patiently waiting: "You wait your rascal, I will show you what you are."

And one day Gopala's mother had come. And she – what you call, like dogs – he let her on Narendranath. So, "Ma, you said you had the visions of Gopala and all that. This boy deserves to hear all those things. So you please go and tell" – that lady went out, because her Gopala had told her, without understanding what Sri Ramakrishna really was scheming.

Came to Narendranath, sat right in front of him, caught hold of his hands, and started describing and weeping, and now and then asking, "Baba, do you think it is all real, or is it all imaginations of my rotten brain?" And then he himself was shedding tears, because that is the power of truth.

Then he was, "No, no mother, whatever you have experienced is absolute truth." Now with what face would he say to Sri Ramakrishna that what Gopala's mother had seen is absolute truth and what you have seen is absolute figments of your imagination? So you see.

Question 2: Can Ahamkara Be Correlated with Avarana and Vikshepa Shakti?

Participant: Okay, pranam, Maharaj. Okay, so Maharaj, I have a question regarding the Avarana and Vikshepa Shakti. Yeah, Maya and these are some of the thoughts that have come to my mind. I just want to understand if this is correct or needs to be corrected here. So almost like a three-part question.

So we have the Avarana, which is the covering power, and the Vikshepa Shakti, which you described today as a scattering power. So can we correlate when we say the word Ahamkara? Can we correlate the Avarana as the Aham or "I am," and the Vikshepa as the kara – that ayan?

Aham Is Pure Brahman; Avidya Covers It First

Response: No. Aham is pure Brahman. Then only comes Avidya. So first it covers – that "I am Brahman" – that is, "I am not Brahman." That is called the power of Avarana Shakti.

Then simply I can't say who I am not. I have to say something – who I am, isn't it? I am a man, and I am from India, I am a Hindu, these are my parents, these are my children, etcetera. That is called Vikshepa Shakti.

Deep Sleep, Waking, and Dream States

Response: So in deep sleep, we don't know Brahman, but we don't say "I am somebody." But in both waking and dream states, not only do we not know who we are, but we say 100, 150% truth that we are somebody else. That is called Vikshepa Shakti. Now you follow?

Aham is not to be equated with Ahamkara. Be very clear about it. Aham is Pure Brahman. Whatever we add to that Aham, say "I am" – that is Brahman. So by saying "I am a woman," you are saying at the same time two things: "I am not Brahman, but I am a woman." Are you not doing that?

Participant: Yes, Maharaj.

Response: That both fall under that karma. So we have to go beyond both powers. We must know who we are, and automatically there is no question of saying "I am somebody else." That's the truth. That Aham is what we call Turiyavastha. "I am Brahma." Clear.

Participant: Yes, Maharaj.

Question 3: Does Reasoning Remove the Ego?

Participant: So Maharaj, when Thakur states that through reasoning you cannot get rid of the ego – it will still remain – so best is to sublimate it, to make it like a devotee, or you know. So all these yogas are helping us sublimate this ego that we have.

Surrender, Not Sublimation

Response: And I would say it is not sublimation actually. It is surrendering. We are trying more and more to surrender to the Mother. Call it by any name you like – spiritual progress, sublimation, whatever you call it.

So that is the process Sri Ramakrishna is telling: nobody had ever known God through reasoning. But reasoning prevents – helps us by not going in the wrong direction. To go in the right direction, scriptures will guide us. To prevent us from going into the wrong direction, reasoning can help us.

Participant: Yes.

Response: That is the function.