Mandukya Karika Lecture 077 on 16 November 2022

Full Transcript(under review)

ॐ जननीं सारदां देवीं रामकृष्णं जगद्गुरुं।

पादपद्मे तयोः श्रित्वा प्रणमामि मुहुर्‍मुहुः॥

Om Jananim Sāradām devīm Rāmakrishnam jagadgurum

Pādapadme tayoh shritva pranamāmi muhurmuhuh.

ॐ भद्रं कर्णेभिः शृणुयाम देवाः ।

भद्रं पश्येमाक्षभिर्यजत्राः ।

स्थिरैरङ्गैस्तुष्टुवागँसस्तनूभिः ।

व्यशेम देवहितं यदायूः ।

स्वस्ति न इन्द्रो वृद्धश्रवाः ।

स्वस्ति नः पूषा विश्ववेदाः ।

स्वस्ति नस्ताक्षर्यो अरिष्टनेमिः ।

स्वस्ति नो बृहस्पतिर्दधातु ॥

ॐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः ॥ हरि ॐ॥

Om Bhadram Karnnebhih Shrnnuyāma Devāha |

Bhadram Pashyemākshabhiryajatrāha|

Sthirairangaihi Tushtuvāngasastanūbhihi |

Vyashema Devahitam Yadāyūhu |

Svasti Na Indro Vrddhashravāha |

Svasti Nah Pūshā Vishvavedāha |

Svasti Nastāksharyo Arishtanemihi |

Svasti No Brhaspatirdadhātu ||

Om Shānti Shānti Shāntihi || Hari Om।।

Om, O Gods, may we always hear with our ears what is auspicious.

O Worshipful ones, may we with our eyes always see what is auspicious.

May we live our allotted lives hale and hearty offering our praises unto thee.

May Indra of ancient fame bestow auspiciousness on all of us.

May the all nourishing Pūshan be propitious to all of us.

May Garuda, the destroyer of all evils, be well disposed towards all of us.

May Brihaspati ensure all our Welfare.

Om Peace, peace, peace be onto all.

By the grace of God, we have entered into the second chapter of the Māndukya Kārikā. And this second chapter and third chapter and fourth chapter are compositions of Gaudapādāchārya. The Māndukya Upanishad which has 12 mantras is over. That is why the first chapter along with the 29 Kārikās of the Mandukya Kārikās of Gaudapāda is over. Second, third and fourth chapters are completely explanations by Gaudapādāchārya.

This second chapter is called Vaitathya Prakarana. Prakarana means chapter, or dealing with the subject called Vaitathya. It has 38 Kārikās. So what does Vaitathya mean? We should recollect what I have discussed in my last class as an introduction.

In our experience, we use words Sat, Asat and Mithyā. Now Sat means whatever exists. Whatever exists always exists. And whatever doesn't exist never exists. We are using words called Asat but such a thing is not there as a fact, as an object of experience. Examples, the horns of a hare, the child of a barren woman, the waters of a mirage. We can use big words, we can write books but such a thing doesn't exist at all.

But there are certain things under certain uncertain conditions. They appear to be existing for a short time. Like in semi-darkness, we see a snake but the snake is totally dependent upon the rope. So three conditions I hope you remember.

1. There must be insufficient light.
2. and we must have experienced the object called snake before
3. and there must be similarity between the original object and what we superimpose upon it.

And that object which is mistaken, that is called Mithyā. Mithyā is a temporary phenomenon. We experience it not because it is real, because of insufficient light under certain, what we call uncertain conditions.

( 05:06 mins )

So this Mithyā, Vaitathya. Tathya means Sat, what is real.

Vitathya which becomes Vaitathya means it is seemingly real, not Asat, not Sat but seemingly real, totally dependent upon what is real. And this entire chapter is called Vaitathya Prakaranam, the subject dealing with the seeming experience of this world.

So there is a teaching Brahma Satyam Jagan Mithyā is conveyed by the words Advaitam and Prapanchopashamam. Where do we get these words? In the seventh mantra of the first chapter, the original mantra, seventh mantra of the Māndukya Upanishad.

Advaitam means there is no second. It means Brahman alone is real.

And Prapanchopashamam means all duality which is this world.

1. First of all, the world is different from me.
2. Secondly, everything is different from everything else.
3. Thirdly, everything depends upon everything else. So if I have to see you, your existence depends upon me and if you have to see me, my existence depends upon you. Thus that is the third characteristic.
4. What is the fourth? That without a real observer or experiencer, a Mithyā object cannot even exist.

And that was a point very nicely brought out in the 16th verse of the second chapter of the Bhagavad-Gita.

नासतो विद्यते भावो नाभावो विद्यते सत: |

उभयोरपि दृष्टोऽन्तस्त्वनयोस्तत्त्वदर्शिभि: || 2.16 ।।

nāsato vidyate bhāvo nābhāvo vidyate sataḥ ।

ubhayorapi dṛiṣhṭo ’nta stvanayos tattva-darśhibhiḥ ।।

So to reveal this particular Mithyā status of the world, Gaudapādāchārya in the second chapter called Vaitathya Prakaranam takes the example of the dream, analyzes the dream state.

And what is the dream state? During the dream state, we experience the dream world as absolute reality. When we are experiencing, when we are the dreamers, we don't call it a dream but absolute reality like the waking. The dream world is really existent for us as long as we are dreaming. But the dream world itself is temporary.

Then we come back to waking. As we know Māndukya Upanishad, waking, dream and deep sleep go on changing in time by every Jīva and from birth to death. So upon waking up, we find that our dream world is gone and know that it was never separate from me. What is that? What does it mean? It means I imagined, I became, I became the entire Svapna Jagat. I became the experiencer, I became the experienced object, I became the instruments of experience like the eyes, ears, etc. It is only an imagination in my mind.

And is it possible that it is exactly our waking state is the same thing? Yes, that is what Gaudapāda wants to say. Just as so long as we are in the dream, we don't think it is a dream, we think it is real. But when we are in the waking state, there is a speciality.

That speciality, what is that speciality? I already mentioned to you several times, but we have to keep it in mind, so I am reminding you once again. Because we wake up to the same house, same place, same objects, same states, same seasons. We never say, unlike dream, dream every day and every night and every dream is totally different from other dreams. Same house, same place do not exist. But there is something very rational about it. We don't ask that question, that dream is always changing, waking state is continuous - We don't say that in the dream state.

When we are dreaming, as if it is just like waking state and there is no break. Continuously we are continuing, waking up in the same place, etc. The question of yesterday, or last dream, it was different, I was in a different place and a different world. I never say that. But only this question comes.

( 10:23 mins )

So Gaudapāda, Shankarāchārya, all thinking people say, this comparison is only to say the unreality of both dream as well as waking states, but not to prove the dream state alone as unreal.

So this seemingly real world is existent for how long? As long as we are in the waking state.

For whom? For the waker.

See the beauty of it. In the same room, I am awake, a child is asleep, and the child may be dreaming, he is in the dream state. Another child may be in deep sleep. So all the three states are going on at the same time, in the same room and for all the different people. That is what we have to understand.

This world is seemingly existent for the waker, so long as he is in the waking state. But upon enquiry, he says, ‘Yesterday I dreamt, and now I know it is all my imagination. Could it not be so that when I am in the dream state, if I become an enquirer…’

And it is absolutely true, if I become a thoughtful person, deep thinker in the waking, I also find myself a deep thinker in the dream And I say, maybe that state called waking, what we now call waking, is not called waking in the dream. In the dream state, waking state is considered, taken for granted as a dream. Maybe this state of waking, (I am talking about the dream state), this state which I think is a waking state, may it not be as unreal as the dream state, compared to our waking state. So that is what thoughtful people should arrive at.

• So from the standpoint of waking, dream is an unreal state.
• From the point of the dream state, waking state is unreal.
• But from the state of Brahman, both the dream state as well as waking state are completely unreal.

What a marvellous idea this Māndukya wants to tell. And what do you think Sri Rāmakrishna is talking about all the time in the Gospel? He is exactly telling Brahma Satyam, and everything is Brahman. That is a different point. I will come to that in the course of time.

But to illustrate this waking state is as unreal or as real as the dream, as Gaudapāda and Shankarāchārya both want to prove, as every Jnāni wants to prove to us, Sri Rāmakrishna is illustrating very simply, so that we all can understand. But our understanding should be a bit deep thinking.

What is that story? There was a farmer. He was married. He had a son. He used to cultivate fields. And his only son died in the waking state. And then his wife sent news, because the man was cultivating his field. and he came, but there was no sign of grief. Then his wife got angry. ‘You don't love your child’. Because you are not weeping. You are not suffering.

Then he told this, ‘Yesterday night I had a dream. I dreamt that I was a king. I had a beautiful wife.’ (I am adding a little bit of fun) ‘And I had seven beautiful, intelligent, very powerful, capable princes. When I woke up, my kingdom is gone. My beautiful wife is gone. All my seven children have gone.’

And now is the story Sri Rāmakrishna tells with deep meaning. ‘Shall I weep for those seven children, and beautiful queen, and wonderful kingdom, where I need not work so hard like in this waking state?’

So that is the marvelous story. But we have to enjoy it by adding lot of spices. How do we add? Now this man was a real jnāni. We have to understand this man is a real jnāni. For him, he understood this Gaudapāda’s Māndukya Kārikās thoroughly. Not necessarily, but he must have understood through experience.

( 15:21 mins )

Comparatively, both dream and waking state, both are unreal. We have to add the deep sleep state also to that. All the states - whichever state we are experiencing, as long as we experience, is real. All other states are unreal.

So then what is real? I, the experiencer, alone is real.

Why am I real? Because I don't change. Trikāla abādhitam satyam. That I know whatever remains the same. There is no past, present and future. That which never changes. Remember, time means change and timelessness means changelessness. And whatever doesn't change, that is called truth. That is called reality.

This person must have experienced it. And so he says that I am a farmer, I am a cultivator, I am married, I have a son, is as unreal or as real as I was a king, I had a kingdom, I had a beautiful wife and children - When that is gone.

This is also of the same nature. And that is the profound truth that Sri Rāmakrishna wants to convey. If we understand that story of the farmer, we understand this entire second chapter very well. Of course, it doesn't mean you should not attend my classes. It means that the point is very clear.

And sometimes I have mentioned also one story. There was King Janaka and one day after nice dinner on a royal bed, embracing his beautiful wife, he fell asleep. Why am I adding all this masala? Because when he goes to dream state, he was not a king, he doesn't have a beautiful wife, he was not sleeping on a royal bed, he did not eat royal dinner. All these things we have to take into consideration. But because dream can be anything.

But then what happens is, he dreamt that the neighbouring king declared war, and this King Janaka was defeated. And the other king, the enemy king was chasing him. And for three days continuously this man was on the run, and fourth day at noon, King Janaka found himself, in the dream, that he reached a village which is in the next kingdom. Naturally, the enemy had stopped at the border.

And he was ravenously hungry. King Janaka was ravenously hungry. He reached a place where they were distributing food. He stood in the queue. When his turn came, completely the food was finished. But then he saw some burnt remnants sticking to the bottom, and he requested. And then the man took pity upon him, seeing his condition, scooped up all those remnants, over burnt etc., put it in a leaf plate, gave it to him. When we are hungry, we don't see all those things. He took it, something to eat. Suddenly a big bird came, scooped up the whole thing, and in the process, the food had fallen in the dust which could not be eaten. And the king, weeping, suddenly woke up. And then the dream was so real.

He woke up. He found himself on his bed. And then he had only one question. ‘Was that real? Is this real?’ And for three days he was questioning. People thought he went mad. And on the third day, a great sage happened to pass by. And then he was requested to come and face the king's question. Then the Rishi came, and then the king asked him, ‘क्या वो सच है? क्या ये सच है?’ (Kya vo sach hai? Kya ye sach hai?) ‘Was that real?’ That means what I saw, the enemy king chasing me. And the bird came and spoiled my last meals. I could not get. I was starving. Or I woke up from a full stomach because I have eaten. I see my wife. I see the ministers. I see my servants. I am the king.

‘What is real? ये सच है या वो सच है? (Ye sach hai ya vo sach hai?) And then the sage said, ‘O king, वो भी सच नहीं है, ये भी सच नहीं है। तुम एकमात्र सच है।’ (Vo bhi sach nahin hai, ye bhi sach nahin hai. Tum ek matra sach hai) ‘O king, that state which you saw in the past, that is not real. This state which you are experiencing now, it is also not real. But you who experienced that state, who are now experiencing this state, you have not changed anything. You alone are the reality.’

( 20:38 mins )

And that is what Gaudapāda wants to establish here. Only Brahman is there.

Then what about after realization? If a person is called Jīvan-mukta and still he has body and mind, he is called Jīvan-mukta, for him this world is also Brahman. Not Jagat, but Brahman in the form of names and forms. So, so long as we have not realized Brahman, Brahman is not real. Jagat also is not real. But for the sake of sādhana, that which never changes is called Brahman, and that alone is real. And we have to do sādhana, spiritual practice, and after realisation two things happen

1. We know that I am Brahman. There is no second object I am experiencing called Brahman.
2. But not only that. If I happen to come back into this body and mind, I will be called Jīvan-mukta.

But a Jīvan-mukta doesn't say I am a Jīvan-mukta. He says I am Sadā Mukta, if at all he has to say. And this world is not a Mithyā. It is only for the sake of spiritual practice we say Brahma Satyam, Jagat Mithya. After realization - Brahma Satyam, Jagat Satyam, Sarvam Satyam, Aham Satyam, Tvam Apisatyam, Sarvam Satyam - Sarvam Khalvidam Brahma.

This second chapter wants to establish this status of Mithyā of the world because remember this is not true. The world is not a Mithyā from the viewpoint of Brahman. It is real because there is no world after God realization. But there will be world but same Brahman with Nāma Rūpa. Just as we recognize same actor was acting in that drama with that name, with that dress. Same actor is acting another role in this drama with another name but everybody is the same. That is the fun of it.

Most of the cinemas that we see same actors, and story also more or less the same, and same actors with different names and different slightly dissimilar situations they will be playing, but we understand this is nothing. But the truth is the actor is real, actress is real, but the drama is not real. So the same actor with different form, different name, different role.

Same Brahman - different form, different name, different role.

Like we enjoy the cinema knowing fully well it is only seeming appearance not real. And if you understood this, you understood the entire second chapter.

So this statement, something is seemingly existent, like the snake is seemingly existent. When we say seemingly existent… When do we say? Only when we come to know after getting the knowledge of the rope.

But once we get the rope knowledge will the snake remain? Well, in this well known example of Raju-Sarpa, when once we come to know it is only a rope, Raju, we will not see the snake.

But then I add something. Suppose there is a seemingly plastic electronic snake, even after knowing it is only plastic electronic snake, it is harmless, but still the appearance will be 100% real. This is an addition you have to note down.

This is called Vivarta-vāda - when we are seemingly existent. So an ignorant person should not say seemingly existent. Only a knower through faith in the scriptures, ‘Guru told me it is seeming.’ But factually also it is seeming.

How is it factually seeming? Because from another point of view everything is changing. I was very young, I was middle aged, now I am old, and everything is changing. Everyday I am changing, you are changing, the world is changing. Nothing is remaining exactly the same. This is a fact and we all know it, and we at least try to accept that fact. So that which is changing is not really real but seemingly real

( 25:45 mins )

But when we realise Brahman we go beyond time, nothing is really changing, all fear goes away. So this is called Vivarta-vāda. And then, after realisation, when we come to realise, I was never born, it is called Ajāti-vāda.

So Vivarta-vāda when we are practising, Ajāti-vāda after realisation.

But both are two ways of looking at the seemingness of the world. And when we repeatedly study these kind of scriptures we may develop a misconception. We should not… What is the misconception? Since the world is unreal… and there was an incident about this also which illustrates.

What is that incident? When Sri Rāmakrishna was at Dakshineswar, He heard of a Sādhu who was immoral and then Sri Rāmakrishna cannot bear, ‘If you want to be immoral, be a worldly person and be immoral. But you are donning the dress of a monk, and you are shamelessly misbehaving.’ So with His wooden slippers He went to that Sādhu and said, ‘Is it true that you are having an affair with a woman?’ Sri Rāmakrishna never minced words because He can never speak the seeming truth, He speaks directly. And the Sādhu, not a bit shaken, boldly he says, ‘Well I can prove to you that what I am doing is not immoral.’ How? ‘He says the whole world is Mithyā. So if the whole world is Mithyā, me the Sādhu is also Mithyā, me the immoral person is also Mithyā, so there is… nothing is real. How do you call me immoral?’ And Sri Rāmakrishna said, ‘I spit upon this kind of hypocritical Vedānta.’

So we have to remember when we are practicing we should not say this world is unreal. What we should say…What do we say then? We say until I realize God, this world is real to me.

So in this world there are rules and regulations, there is Dharma and Adharma, there is truth and untruth, there is good and evil, there is righteous and unrighteous behavior. I should never become a hypocrite saying something and behaving in a different way. Let us behonest, truthful. If we make a mistake, let us admit the mistake.

So this is what - if the dream world is unreal (because we all say that) the waking world is equally unreal.

This is the summary of what we are going to study in this second chapter. If we understand, what I said just now, it will be easier for us to go through this second chapter.

So what is the connection between the first chapter and this chapter?

Shankarāchārya is commenting though it is declared in the first chapter Āgama Prakarana that there is no duality, Brahman alone exists. Yet it is all done through the scriptural statement Āgama Shruti Vākya.

But the second chapter is written to support that this world is illusory, not only because the scripture tells, but through reason and logic also we can come to the same conclusion. Therefore this Prakarana is called Vaitathya.

And Gaudapāda tries to establish through reasoning that the illusory nature of all duality -

• World means duality
• Reality means illusory
• Illusory means changefulness
• Changefulness means subject to time space and causation

That is what he wants. So how does he do it? The attempt in this chapter is to compare the waking state of experiences with the dream state. And to draw the logical conclusion, that there is in fact no difference, whatsoever, between the seeming experiences of the dream and same experiences in this world.

( 30:21 mins )

Why? Because we are all thinking dream is a dream but waking state is very real when do we say that in the waking state do we say the same thing in the dream state no in the dream state dream state alone is real there is no illogic there when we find ourselves in America while we are lying down in India we don't say it is illogical we say I travelled few days back and it took me so much time so we should not compare from the waking state how did you find in a minute to go but upon waking up because we wake up in the same house and same people same objects and our vivahara day to day transaction continues so we think this is real but the contention is what we call waking reality is not real why is it not real because it is continuously changing so many years passed every birthday is one year nearer or one second nearer to the chopping block as I say so this is what the summary that waking state is no different from the dream state so he wants to say how the dream state is not real from the waking state point of view this is very important from the waking state point of view we are analyzing the dream state and saying it is unreal upon waking up but we have to apply the same logic and say the waking state is also no different from the dream state but analyzed from the dream state point of view with this background let us enter into the first shloka in the second chapter called maneshana thinking people wise people they say they don't simply say they are thinking people, they are logical people, they are rational people and what they say is through observation and that observation is absolute to truth and they say, they declare, what do they say swapnetu in the dream state samrutatvena hetuna what is the samrutatva that is within the confined body because of the reason because whatever we experience in this body in the dream state is very confined our body is very confined bhavana means everything that we experience every object we experience because of the reason hetuna means by the reason what reason everything is completely confined then what is the conclusion all the experience of every single object that we experience in the dream state is what unreal the wise declare all objects of the dream as illusory why they all being located within the body and also because of their being in a confined space godapada wants to show that the world that we experience in the waking state is also mithya that is the real contention so the attempt of shankaracharya also in this chapter is to prove the illusory nature of the world of plurality purely using logical reasons unlike the previous chapter where the same conclusions were arrived at mainly through the scriptural declarations agama shruti made by the rishi's support so this waking world appears real only in the waking state its relevance and validity are only in the waking state in case you get confused what does this first loka mean we are analyzing the dream state not in the dream state but in the waking state and what is it the state i am now in this waking state is real but the state i had experienced when i was in the dream state is completely unreal and why is it unreal because my this small body is lying on the bed so i am in varanasi i dreamt i went to america first of all is a long distance it is not possible to travel it takes at least some 20 hours 24 hours at least 12 hours but not only that that i find myself in that place so place wise desha wise and kala wise everything where did i go i was here only anybody who is sleeping by my side sorry waking up in the by my side he knows i am there and another point is psychologist tell us every dream lasts only for one and half minutes within one and half minutes how many places i can visit i can go to deva loka indra loka swarga loka naraka loka and then within one and half minutes is it possible even when i am old even to go to bathroom it will take 7-8 minutes we all know that when we are sick how much time it takes and not to speak of going to the mars going to the moon going to america even if you take next room also it will take time and where am i experiencing in this body within this body so that is why but we think that so long as we are in the dream state i really meant it is not unreal and time and space they become very real to me its reality only conditional reality what is the conditional reality the dreamer should be in the dream state and so long as he is in the dream state a dream state is more real than the waking state what is the condition of the waking world we must be in the waking state and as wakers comparing a dream experiences it becomes unreal so apply the same logic in the dream state waking experiences are unreal and in the waking state dream experiences are unreal this is what gaudapada wants to say that when compared to other states when one states to be proved as mithya unreal both states all not both all the three states jagrasvapna sushukti all are changing that changefulness is the first point what is the second point that when we are in a particular state the other states are unreal what is the third point that my experience of the waking state is totally dependent upon myself for example I see a mango tree I see a tiger that is enough example that existence of the tree that existence of the tiger totally depends upon me the observer the experiencer if my mind is diverted to something else the moment a second object comes second thought will come second thought will destroy the first thought and the along with the first thought the object of the first thought also becomes what non-existent not not that it is kept like waiting persons in the next room it becomes until I remember it every other object accepting what I am experiencing right now becomes completely non-existent so the existence of an object which depends upon the experiencer observer that is called mithya what is reality then whatever remains whether somebody observes or not it is there all the time and you cannot change it that is called reality and what is that reality in this example I am in the waking state I am real the tree I observe doesn't prove my reality the tree's existence depends upon my reality when I go into the dream state I experience the reality I see a tree one minute next minute I see a house so the house is changing the tree is changing and every object I experience in the dream state is changing but I am not changing similarly I go into the deep sleep state there I am not I don't experience that is a wrong statement really I experience the presence of an object that is waking and dream but in the dreamless state I do not experience because the instruments of experience called the body and mind are absent so for example I see a tree so the tree is the same first of all through the eye then through the mind but without me without my taking cognizance without my recognition power of awareness the tree doesn't exist the eye doesn't function the mind doesn't function the object doesn't exist but I exist all the time without any change this applies to all the three states suppose I see you are there in my room I experience you I experience your presence in the room then you go out of the room I experience the absence of you going out means the absence of you in the room your presence is experienced by me your absence is also experienced by me and this absence of experience proves that there is somebody who is the experiencer and that is what happens in dreamless deep sleep that is I don't experience I experience the object of the world and that is called deep sleep but I am there to experience either the presence of the Jagrat or Swapna or the absence of Jagrat and Swapna that is what truly is the deep sleep state but I am present equally unchangingly in the all the three states so compare to the three states one state is both other states are changing all the time and so every state is changing waking is changing dream is changing deep sleep is changing whatever is changing is Mithya that is one way of understanding so this is an important point many events and objects are experienced in dream but their only projections in the mind this is an analysis of the what we call waking and dream and then second reason remember Padapada's karika and Charya comments is also to say from the time's viewpoint of you easterly in the first verse from the space point of view I find myself I see a huge elephant where do I see within myself where is the space even can you ever dream that a mountain mount Himalayas you brought you plucked it and put it in your money purse can you dream can you imagine same way but what happens when you go to bed you actually feel inside you but this inside you is only an observation from the waking point of view not from the dream point of view from the dream point of view we actually went to the Himalayas and you have seen it that is from the space point of view whatever we experience cannot be because in this small body all the objects even the smallest object there is no space I mean the second verse from the time point of view what does the second verse say on account of the shortness of time it is not possible for the dreamer to go out of the body and see the dream objects for example this is very easy to understand you are in Bangalore you dream that you have gone to Varanasi and you saw lord Vishwanatha and you are you have taken some prasada while you are touching lord Vishwanatha and feeling blessed suddenly somebody wakes you up where do you find yourself you find yourself in your own bed say for example in this example in Bangalore so how much time only about a minute back you went to bed and you dream in one minute is it possible one minute is not enough even if you are traveling by plane at least five six hours are necessary and then there are many other obstacles can happen your plane may be cancelled or it morning flight may be afternoon flight or night flight or next day's flight three days flight you might fall sick and you might postpone anything can happen but then what do you see you see in the dream you reached Varanasi in a twinkling of a thought and then you find yourself in the temple of lord Vishwanatha the most marvelous thing from that point of view and you are touching lord Vishwanatha you are feeling how blessed you are suddenly your dream breaks up where do you find yourself only in your place that means you are not gone anywhere that means your it is all a disturbance in your thought it is your imagination and so time factor is taken you can't find yourself in a second in Varanasi you can't again go back to your place in another second but from these experiences you don't find yourself in Varanasi when you wake up you find exactly where you have fallen asleep it could be a bed it could be a chair it could be even when I am talking now in this so this is what Gaudapada wants to say Aadhir Ghat Vacha Kalasya Kalasya means of time Aadhir Ghat Vacha means longness everything requires time if you want to go to next room it may take a minute if you want to go to next house it may take five minutes if you want to go to the your market it may take one hour especially in Bangalore if you want to go to America it may take 24 hours or even more so but your whole dream lasts only for a few seconds remember never forget this is an analysis of dream state from the waking point of view not from the dream point of view from the dream point of view you don't find all this what is called irrational what is called conclusion it is absolutely rational you really came and you came by train or plane and you went to the temple and you quarreled with the panda and you touched lord Vishwanatha everything is absolutely real but from the waking point of view so within a very twinkling of a second you went to mars you went to moon you went to the sun god everything so that person when he wakes up he doesn't see what doesn't he see where he went he doesn't see when this same person who was dreaming wakes up means waking up means waking up everybody where you thought you were in Varanasi for example you don't see yourself in Varanasi you see yourself on the same place where you are having this dream on account of the shortness of time to go to distant places it is not possible for the dreamer to go out of the body and see the dream objects nor does the dream upon waking up find himself in the place which he had been seeing a second back in his dream not only the objects in the dream are unreal but all the events in the dream every single event are also unreal the time in dream is very limited that is one reason given for in the second verse that the dreams last only sometimes only few seconds but you may find if you have children in America you went where Australia you went so many things you experienced and you have eaten a big dinner in a restaurant and then that is also a beautiful dream and you are very happy and at the same time you feel your stomach is bulging because of what you have eaten in the dream but as soon as you wake up after a few milliseconds you find perhaps ravenously hungry I have gone to dream straight without eating my dinner and I am especially after dreaming such a luscious dinner you feel ravenously hungry so this is another reason he wants to tell and then objector objector objector comes and this is not what you say oh Gaudapada is not true so what is what we want to say oh objector and he says dreamer is not seeing the objects of his dream within his bosom but is actually experiencing them in distant places for the dreamer often dreams of distant places and objects of those localities so if the dreamer can have easy access to unlimited space then certainly the objects of the dream can be accommodated there the summary of what the objector wants to say is don't compare waking and dream so waking state has its own concept of space and time and in dream also it has its own concept of space and dream and I want to tell you that your analysis of comparing the dream experiences that they are unreal because you are comparing them with the waking state experiences that we don't accept and then Gaudapada he wants to tell to meet these objections is even if our experiences in dream are what we had gone far of etc. it is only an experience within our own mind and naturally the dream must be unreal because already earlier he had given if I dream I am in Varanasi I don't wake up in Varanasi I wake up in my own bed that means the whole experience took place in the world for that reason O objector I don't accept this one and then in the third verse what is Gaudapada doing so even though he has given the rationality the reasoning the dream objects dream experiences analyzed in the waking state are all unreal irrational unacceptable therefore he says not only I am giving trying to convince you through logic but the Shruti also is supporting me and here the Shruti quoted in support of Gaudapada's argument remember these are all Gaudapada's verses not Shankaracharya's and 38 verses are there in the second chapter all his writings his creations wanting to prove the changefulness of the dream world that is the real point if you grasped that point then apply the same to the waking state whether dream state is real waking state is real the definition of reality is it should not change and what is our experience when we are dreaming that is real and there also things are changing there also you become old there also you see mirages there also you see a seeming snake and start screaming in your dream just as in the waking state also we all become young we become middle aged old and diseased and death and happy and unhappy everything is changing not only over a long time within a second everything can change in fact how much time does it take for somebody to die just a millisecond that's all so here in this third verse Gaudapada wants to take the help of the Shruti it is a very important point for us because simply we don't want to establish a truth by logic that is what modern philosophers modern psychologists want to do but Indian philosophy never accepts first Shruti then understand Shruti through logic that is the process not that we establish the truth of the statements of the Shruti through logic on the other the vice versa we try to understand the reality the depth the truth of Shruti scriptural statements so that for our own good through logic deep thinking for that he quotes the third verse following reason as indicated above here Brihadaranyaka Upanishad declares the non-existence of the chariots etc. perceived in dream therefore it is said by the wise that scripture itself declares illusoriness of the dream experiences and by proxy by extension illusoriness of the waking state also illusoriness of the dream state that should be firmly understood the Vedas that means Upanishads also confirm a Mithyatma the temporary reality of the dreams in Brihadaranyaka Upanishad a person dreams that he is travelling by a chariot, chariot is drawn by horses, horses are travelling by roads and or there is a chariot here also like a taxi driver and he is travelling he sees various things in the dream we may dream like that but upon waking up we find that they were all our mental projections so strictly confirming to reason and logic Shruti also declares a non-existence of the chariots and so on perceived in the dream by the dreamer and in the dream the dreamer thinks they are all 100% real but as soon as he wakes up he understands that everything is completely unreal. Shankaracharya also supports this in one of his works called Brahma Manavali pointedly saying he says the whole world of things can be divided into two groups the world of objects perceived and the world of the perceiver and Vedanta declares that the perceiver alone is the truth and the perceived is the super imposition upon it this I will discuss in my next class but what I want to give a pointer here that is the whole world can be divided into two the experiencer and the experiencer and the experiencer is unreal the experiencer alone is real and why there are a few reasons for that which we will talk about in our next class Om Jananem Sharadam Deveem Ramakrishnam Jagadgurum Pada Padme Tayo Sritva Namaami Mohur Moho May Ramakrishna Holy Mother and Swami Vivekananda bless us all with Bhakti Jai Ramakrishna