Brihadaranyaka Upanishad Ch.2.5 Lecture 70 on 20 September 2026

Full Transcript (Not Corrected)

Opening Invocation

ओं जननीं शारदां देवीं रामकृष्णं जगद्गुरुं, पादपद्मे तयोः श्रित्वा प्रणमामि मुहुर्मुहुः.

Oṃ jananīṃ śāradāṃ devīṃ rāmakṛṣṇaṃ jagadguruṃ, pādapadme tayoḥ śritvā praṇamāmi muhurmuhuḥ.

ॐ पूर्णमदः पूर्णमिदं पूर्णात् पूर्णमुदच्यते

पूर्णस्य पूर्णमादाय पूर्णमेवावशिष्यते

ॐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः

OM PŪRṆAMADAḤ PŪRṆAMIDAM PŪRṆĀT PŪRṆAMUDACYATE PŪRṆASYA PŪRṆAMĀDĀYA PŪRṆAMEVA VAŚIṢYATE OM ŚĀNTI ŚĀNTI ŚĀNTIH

OM That Brahman is infinite, and this universe is also infinite. The infinite proceeds from the infinite. Taking the infinitude of the infinite universe, it remains as the infinite Brahman alone.

OM Peace, Peace, Peace be unto all.

Introduction to Madhu Vidya

In our last class, we started a new section called Madhu Brahmana, or even better name, Madhu Vidya – the knowledge which is called most delightful, most beloved, most enjoyable. The word madhu ordinarily translated is honey, but here it means that tremendous joy will come, and in a particular way.

What is that? All of us, the whole creation, is running on interdependence. Jiva is dependent upon jiva. Jiva is dependent upon jagat. Jagat is dependent upon jiva. Jiva is dependent upon Ishvara. Ishvara is dependent upon jiva. These are called the five dependencies, so beautifully outlined by Madhvacharya.

So what were we talking about – this story, how this Madhu Vidya had come to be. We already covered that portion. There was a great rishi called Dadhyang, and he knew this: that everything is totally dependent. Even God is dependent upon this world; the world is dependent upon God.

God Depends Upon the Devotee

From our viewpoint, how come? Because Sri Ramakrishna used to make fun: supposing there is no bhakta, no devotee who goes on telling, "O Bhagavan, you are the greatest, you are the latest, you are the mightiest, you are all knowledge, all existence, all bliss" – then who is going to recognise? So Bhagavan depends upon His devotees to adore Him. Mother depends upon the children. Children depend upon the mother. Husband depends upon the wife. Wife depends upon the husband. Everything is interrelated. And as I said yesterday, this is what the scientists call the holistic view.

The Story of the Ashwini Kumaras and Dadhyang Rishi

So I narrated that there were two gods, they are called Ashwini Kumaras – twins. They are the divine physicians. And there are also some stories which, of course, I am not going to narrate here. And they desired this knowledge, Madhu Vidya. One who knows this Madhu Vidya becomes a – what we call – a jivanmukta, a living free. He becomes a rishi; he becomes a knower of the Self, knower of Brahman.

So we know the story: how they cut off the head of their guru and substituted it with the head of a horse. And Indra, who had prohibited this Vidya to be taught to anybody – without his permission, if anybody violates that rule, he would come and cut off the person who teaches it, who dares to teach it to others. So Indra came to know, and he saw this Dadhyang Rishi with a horse head. So he cut off the horse head. But the Ashwini Kumaras must have been laughing in their sleeves: "You can cut any number of heads; we know how to restore them." So they carefully hid the original face of the Dadhyang Rishi, and they brought it out and reattached it. Immediately he came back to life.

Who knows, maybe this AI can make it possible in future. Heads can also be replaced, like hearts are replaced, kidneys are replaced. Then there would be a real body shop. I never knew what was the meaning of "body shop." I was always wondering, before going to the UK, what is this body shop? Do they sell parts of the body there? Then I came to know they cater to the enhancement of the body – the face powders, lipsticks, etcetera, etcetera. But now a true body shop will come. You can go and exchange any type of head you want, hands you want, face you want, legs you want, anything. Already they are doing it through plastic surgery, but it becomes much easier. But always remember, if there is any instrument, every instrument has both sides. It can save, it can kill; it can be profitable, it can also destroy.

Why the Horse Head? The Battle Between Gods and Demons

Anyway, the Ashwini Kumaras got this Madhu Vidya. And why did they bring the head of a horse? Because there is a story – that is a story within the story – that once there was a tremendous war between the gods and the demons. And it is happening even today, where in our own hearts, between the daivi sampat and asuri sampat, the divine wealth and the demonic wealth. That is to say, we want to go to God, but the demons – that is the attachment to the body, the sense organs, to our family, possessions – doesn't so easily want us to give up. That's why they put a lot of obstacles. That's why so much of struggle is necessary.

This continuous war is called Kurukshetra. Where is it? Where is this war being battled on? In the field called Kurukshetra. Kuru means action, and every action results in the righteous fruit. That's why it is called Dharmakshetra. It can never cheat us. So everybody, every individual's life is a battlefield, and the battle is going on because the potential divinity will not keep quiet. And that continuous battle to go back to what we are, or to remember what we are, that is called evolution. Forgetting our divine nature is called involution, and trying to remember who we really are – that is called evolution.

So this battle between the gods and demons is a common theme. And Lord Vishnu was requested by the gods, and he also joined. He conquered all the demons, but it seems he was extremely tired, so he had a bow. So he planted the bow – even without unstringing it – firmly put his head on the upper side of the bough, and he was fast asleep. Just like we can lean against a tree trunk and sleep. Even I have seen people hanging on to the rails in the coaches or in the tube and then sleeping there. They were perhaps so tired.

So Vishnu was sleeping, and some of the devatas became jealous: "Look at this – for them only he conquered, on their behalf, for their benefit." Some of them became jealous that he is getting all the name and fame, and that aroused jealousy. And then they inspired some insects: "You go and eat up the bowstring." And then as soon as the bowstring was eaten up, the bow became straight, and all of a sudden it stretched itself, and Vishnu's head was cut off.

Then the gods realized, "We should never have done that." Then, because it was a battlefield, we see the horses there. Even in the Bhagavad Gita's Kurukshetra also, there were horses, there were elephants, there were foot soldiers, etcetera. So horses were there. So there were so many dead horses. One head of the dead horse was brought, and it was attached to Bhagavan Vishnu. Ever since, he became known as Hayagriva.

Hayagriva and the Metaphor of Changing Heads

So there are so many devotees who would like to worship, contemplate – they are called Hayagriva upasakas – and they believe the highest Brahmavidya can be taught only through this Hayagriva, because Narayana knows everything. He is Trikala jna, Sarvajna. So that is another story.

So heads can be replaced. But metaphorically speaking, we are always changing our heads – meaning what? Our concept about ourselves. If somebody takes away something from us, we feel, "I'm a loser." That is one head changing. Somebody helps us, we gain something – that is another head. Then we feel that we are richer, so we are happier. We are unhappy; we are healthy; we are unhealthy. Every time our personality, or our identity with our personality, changes – that is called changing our concept about ourselves. That is called changing the head.

That's why the head must be kept cool, calm. That was what Bhagavan Buddha had taught through vipassana and other things: whatever happens, keep your head cool. Becoming hot is not going to help, even if there is pain. But if we think deeply, accept it, and even can rejoice, that change can be brought about by our practice of vipassana, etcetera. This is scientifically proven. One can be, without worries, quite happy. In fact, naturally we do that in deep sleep. But anyway.

So Hayagriva story – Hayagriva means Lord Narayana himself. So these Ashwini Kumaras, they have received this Vidya, they must have practiced it, and they must have realised that "I am Brahman." Anybody who does the same also realises that Brahman, Atman alone is independent.

Dependence, Mithya, and Satyam

So everything is dependent. Dependence is called mithya. Mithya means it is changeable, something, and every mithya must have its origin, depends upon what is satyam. And that satyam is called Atma or Brahman.

So that is how we develop vairagya, viveka, vairagya, control over the body and mind. Finally, our longing for God-realisation, mumukshutvam, grows. Then we become sadhana chatushtaya sampanna adhikaris, and as a result of that, God Himself comes to us in the form of a Guru, and then He teaches us.

Structure of the Madhu Brahmana

So as I said, there are 19 mantras in this section. The last 16th and 17th mantras, they praise or they give the essence of the earlier one to 15 mantras, and the 19th mantra gives the essence of the whole. This 5th Brahmana, second chapter, 5th Brahmana, called Madhu Brahmana. What is it? Sarvam khalvidam brahma. So Brahman alone is the truth. Brahman alone is Sat, Brahman alone is Chit, Brahman alone is Ananda. Brahman alone is Satyam Jnanam Anantham – that is the brief essence.

The Witness Rishi and the Sacrifice of the Guru

So there was another rishi who suddenly enters here, and this rishi in the 16th mantra, he is going to tell us he witnessed how Ashwini Kumaras approached Rishi Dadhyang, and he readily accepted to sacrifice. This is called true sacrifice.

We see it also – there was another rishi, almost similar name. He is called Dadhichi. How, when the war was taking place between gods and demons, Indra approached him, knowing full well, "If I do not get a powerful weapon, then we are surely going to be defeated." So he approached this rishi, who was a naira brahman, and requested him to give up his body – and gladly, happily, he sacrifices his life, though he could have lived for some more time. And then Indra took his backbone and fashioned a most powerful weapon – that is called Indrasthra. And it is most powerful, and that was what he gave also to Karna in the Mahabharata story; it comes to us.

The Guru's Sacrifice and Buddha's Example

So the sacrifice of the Guru – we should not take literally. What it means is: when a Guru comes across a fit disciple ready to receive, he is prepared even to give up his life.

It was a beautiful anecdote from the life of Bhagavan Buddha. He announced, "Tonight I am going to give up my body. Do you have any questions? Now I am ready to answer." But neither Ananda, his chief attendant, nor any of the 1000 disciples staying with him could ask – all grief-stricken. And then Buddha laid down half in Kushinagara under a tree, and he entered almost into the second stage when he wants to give up his body.

At that time, from a hundred miles, a really sincere sadhaka came running. He heard that Buddha is dying, so he expended all his energy, came to Bhagavan Buddha, approached Ananda: "I have some terrible doubts. Only Tathagata can answer them. Please allow me to put them." Of course, Ananda said, "Tathagata is about to give up his body. I am not going to allow anybody to disturb."

So this conversation was going on. Buddha was still conscious. He heard about it, said, "Ananda, so long as the last breath is there, I am prepared to help anybody. Do not stop this sincere aspirant." So the aspirant went and he put some questions then and there. Buddha cleared his doubts, and he became highly advanced in spiritual life, and he became a great Buddhist monk.

Sri Ramakrishna's Example

Similarly, Sri Ramakrishna, even in that stage, somebody entered into his room dressed as a foreigner, and Sri Ramakrishna blessed, wholeheartedly enjoyed that scene. In fact, a woman dressed herself as a young English man – being an actress, she hoodwinked even Swami Niranjanananda, etcetera. So they are ready. Swami Vivekananda was ready, because they know we are not the body, but so long as we are alive, anybody sincerely comes to them, they will be responding to them.

The Witness Rishi's Proclamation

So this whole episode of Dadhyang imparting this Madhu Vidya, the knowledge of the honey, to Ashwini Kumaras was witnessed by another. And then he said: Idam vai tan madhu dadhyang adharvano ashvibhyam uvacha. So he said this great rishi taught this honey doctrine, Madhu Vidya, to the Ashwini devatas. The rishi is Atharvana because he is the knower of Atharvana Veda.

So he is telling that I have no words to speak how great this Madhu Vidya is, and I have seen to what lengths a sadguru goes when he encounters a shishya – an apt, fit disciple. And then I want to proclaim this truth to the entire world what I beheld – how much of sacrifice this Dadhyang Rishi, even believing "I would be the disciple, do not worry, we will replace your head." That also comes in the 16th mantra.

So that is why this should remind the sacrifice of Rishi Dadhichi. As I just now mentioned, the Dadhyang Maharshi performed that tremendous sacrifice to teach this Vidya. Therefore, I will proclaim it to everyone. And that reminds me, Sri Ramakrishna was in his last stages of throat cancer, and it was unbearably painful, and M remarked, seeing this condition, that this is the crucifixion of Christ being reenacted through Sri Ramakrishna.

So that second rishi had no words to praise the sacrifice of the Dadhyang Rishi. So he says, Tanya to navrishtim – just as clouds shower rain over the entire world, I will proclaim this greatest news throughout the entire world. What news? Dadhyanga yan matva madhu atharvanova ma svasya sirah pra adhidam uvacheti. So Ashwini Kumaras were sincere. Guru was also very sincere.

The Essence of Madhu Vidya

Now with this story part is over – how this Madhu Vidya had come about, how another rishi witnessed this event, and he proclaimed in the end that I will not stop proclaiming the greatness of this Dadhyang Rishi so long as I am alive. Meaning great people are known to be great because of their tremendous sacrifice. That's why I reminded you the great sacrifice of Dadhichi, the great sacrifice of Buddha, the great sacrifice of practically every incarnation of God – Jesus Christ, Buddha, how much Sri Rama, how much they suffered.

Now we will go back to our study. So what is the essence of this Madhu Vidya? What is Madhu Vidya? The knowledge that in this creation, everything depends upon everything else. To put it very, very simply, that the whole universe is the effect; every effect must have a cause. That cause is Ishvara. So Ishvara is manifesting as this entire creation. So creation is the effect, Ishvara is the cause, and there is a relationship between Ishvara and the creation. What is it? Karana karya sambandha – the relationship of cause and effect.

Ishvara, Mithya, and the Limits of Duality

And as we said, whatever is dependent is mithya. So the concept of Ishvara will also become mithya when we study this particular section of the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad. Is Ishvara not real then? Is Saguna Brahman not real? Is the Divine Mother not real? That doubt comes only to less intelligent students. Why? Because Saguna Brahman depends or manifests as this world. Saguna Brahman is the cause. If there is no effect, the very title "cause" will disappear. If there is no cause, the effect will be impossible. So when a person realises, both the karana karya or karya karana relationship will end.

That is why Sri Ramakrishna was apt to repeat: Advaita jnana aanchale bindhe jai icha tai koro – keep the knowledge of this Advaita tied to a corner of your upper cloth. Meaning what? It is not a pebble or an object you take up. That means you have that knowledge: everything is Brahman.

And one point we have to remember here: all these discussions of karyakarana, baddha and mukta, bound and released, all these are relevant only in the realm where mind functions. When there is no mind, there would be no questioner, there would be no answerer, there would be no creation. And for that, the example is deep sleep. Only bliss and bliss, bliss, oh bliss, Ananda, oh Ananda. That's all.

The Logic of Mutual Dependence

So that is what we have to understand. But so long as we are here, Ishvara also disappears. So Madhu Brahmana introduces a distinct logical formula. This is called Tarkavakyam or Anumanavakyam, to demonstrate the unreality of this creation. So what is that logic?

Whatever factors are mutually dependent on one another, they are not independent. They lack independent existence, which is technically called mithya. But mithya cannot exist unless there is a substratum which is supporting it, and that is called satyam. So when a person realises God, our concept of mithya and satyam both will disappear.

So you being Brahman, a person doesn't go on proclaiming, "I am Satyam, I am Jnanam, I am Anantam." This is all possible only in the dualistic world, not in the non-dualistic world at all. So every mithya should rest upon a separate independent substrate. So this Madhu Brahmana introduces this tarka to demonstrate: whatever factors are mutually dependent, they are called mithya. Mithya must have an independent substrate called Satya Adhishthana.

The Analogy of the Dream

And to illustrate, Shankaracharya beautifully gives the analogy of the dream. That is why in Advaita Vedanta, the study of dream – in fact, the study of all the three states of experience which every living creature goes through – is so beautifully analysed. I don't think any modern scientist or psychologist ever goes on analysing these three states. For them, whatever is the waking state, that alone is real.

At best, what is the result of analysing the dream state? According to psychologists, the dream is nothing but consisting of manovrittis, thoughts in the mind. And if we can catch what dreams you have, what events you dream – if you can recollect, and we can recollect through practice more and more – when we narrate these dreams, then the analyst analyses them like Freud, and then he says that it has something to do with somebody, some experience, some event, some object.

Simple example: a person is frightened of dry leaves – what is called dry leaf phobia. Nobody is frightened of a dry leaf, but then we are also frightened of dry leaves. Sometimes not directly dry leaves, but what is hidden in that dry leaves is a thick collection of dry leaves. What it actually means is that these dry leaves may be hiding a snake, a scorpion, or a mouse. Anything can be frightening. Many people are terribly scared of mice, no doubt, especially women, they say.

So Shankaracharya takes the example of Swapna Rishtanta – dream as an analogy. What is it? The dream subject, that is the dreamer, depends upon the dream world. And the dream world, of course, depends upon the dreamer, because if one disappears, the other also disappears. That's why as soon as we are awake, both the dreamer and the dream world both disappear automatically, and we realise, "Oh, I have been imagining things" – meaning they are not real.

The Interdependence of All Dualities

So everything in this world is dependent. And not only that, the collective name for this world is called Jagath. The whole Jagath is mithya, and this Jagath has to depend upon Ishvara. But don't say Brahman, say Ishvara, because Brahman according to Advaita Vedanta has nothing to do with creation, because any cause-effect relationship is false under realistic understanding.

So Ishvara depends upon the dreamless state. Hiranyagarbha depends upon the subtle mental state, Sukshma Sarira. Virat depends upon this entire waking world. So there is experience, experiencer, object, subject, relationship. So everything, all dualities in the waking world, are mutually dependent.

And just to remind you, if I ask you, "Do you know what is green?" He says, "Of course I know." How do you know? Analyse it. You will never know what is green unless you are aware. What is white? What is black? What is yellow? Something which is opposite. If you ask, "Who are you?" "I'm a man." How do you know you are a male? Because you are aware of the female. How do you know it is cold? Because you are aware of the heat. How do you know you are unhappy? Because you are aware of happiness. How do you know you are happy? Because you are invariably dependent upon – previously I was not happy, now I am happy.

So I hope you are seeing what I am driving at: that the payment for happiness is unhappiness. And if you pay just a little bit, you get only a little bit of happiness. If you suffer terribly and then you pay that price, and you are relieved of that, you get so much of happiness. My famous analogy is that if you are 10% hungry, however tasty the food is, only 10% you will be happy – even if there is plenty of food. No, the hungrier you are, the happier you become when you get food. That's why the beautiful English saying: hunger is the greatest sauce in the world. If you are hungry, you don't care whether there is sauce or spices, etcetera.

So similarly, how do you know you are in the waking state? Because you are aware of the dream and dreamless. How do you know you are dreaming? You are aware of wakefulness and non-dream, deep dream or deep sleep. So it goes. How do you know Bhagavan? Because I am small, He is big. Of small knowledge, He's of big knowledge.

The Triangle of Adhyatmika, Adhibhautika, and Adhidaivika

So what is this? We're talking about interdependence – paraspara, subject-object, upakarya upakara, dependent-independent relationship. So finally the text wants to say, giving practically 15 examples, that the whole cosmos or creation can be divided into a triangle. We did discuss this point; you have to recollect. A triangle must have three angles. What are they?

First of all, I am there – the individual is called Adhyatmika, individual. Then this external world, that is called Adhibhautika. And creating both, supplying both, and sustaining both is Ishvara, who is manifesting in the form of the presiding deities. Every presiding deity is a manifestation of Saguna Brahman called Ishvara. We have seen that crystal clearly.

So supposing there is no creation, who is going to be called? This person is a creator – a creator, by the very title "creator," it means he created something. By the word "singer," that means he sang songs. By the word "cook," that means he prepared some meals. "Driver," if a person never drove, he cannot be called a driver. So you see, Chaitanyam and then Jada, they're also both interdependent.

So how do we know? If Jada is not there, everything is pure consciousness. And if everything is Jadam, who is to come to know that everything is there, there is something called consciousness? So you see, including our concept of God, it is a human concept. It is the angle of thinking by a human being – by an animal also, by a mosquito also.

The Mosquito's God

How come? Supposing a mosquito is approaching a human being and he is sleeping, and the mosquito happily sings lullabies to him and quenches its hunger by drinking the blood, and it gets satisfaction. And what is that satisfaction? "You are my God. Because of you, I was able to quench my hunger and thirst – both food and drink." So you see, consciously or unconsciously, we are dependent.

The Five Great Debts (Pancha Maha Yajna)

And this concept has been beautifully illustrated through another angle. In fact, many angles. I will tell you three examples. Pancha Maha Yajna, so Rishi Yajna for example. So the rishis – where from did they get the knowledge? They must have got it from other rishis before their time. So this is Guru Parampara. And who is – where were the first rishi? There is no such person called first rishi, because creation is endless, beginningless.

So somebody was there knowledgeable, and through language, human beings or even insects, they communicate for their limited needs. And now scientists are recognising ants can tell where food is available. The butterflies, they can tell where honey is available. Every animal knows how to communicate. Every bird knows how to communicate. That is how community is sustained only because of the communication.

So there is some rishi in our times has obtained that knowledge, and we are younger people. So whoever is hungry for knowledge, we approach that person, obtain that knowledge, then we become the rishis, conveyors of that knowledge to other people. So this is interdependence. I depended upon earlier teachers; they depended upon their teachers. So my students depend upon me, and their students depend upon my students. This is how the system goes.

Gods and Human Beings

Then you take gods – they are sustaining the human beings. They are dependent; they are dependent upon human beings, and human beings worship them, perform what is called yajna. Yajna means nothing but grateful thanksgiving in the form of puja, yajna, offerings, etcetera. And how did they become gods? Because they were human beings earlier, and through their performance, by the grace of gods, they also attained to that godhood.

Ancestors (Pitru Purushas)

Similarly, our Pitru Purushas – as children, they depended upon their parents and grandparents, and we depend upon them. So we are grateful. So we become supporters of our children because we were dependents upon our parents. Now later on, we become completely dependent upon our children. So that is how our children, they get rid of the debt. So that is one model.

The Pancha Kosha Model

What about the pancha kosha model? Can you separate one kosha from the other and say, "I want Ananda"? For that, it depends upon the intelligence. Intelligence depends upon the mind. Mind depends upon the prana energy, to activate the body and sense organs and organs of action, organs of knowledge. And these organs procure things which are desired by the – what we call – aham, myself, and that gives happiness, also of course unhappiness.

Then the body depends upon the prana, prana depends upon the mind, mind depends upon the buddhi, buddhi depends upon the Anandamaya Kosha. So they are mutually dependent.

The Shariratraya Model

Another model is the Shariratraya – three types of bodies. The gross body depends upon the subtle body, subtle body depends upon the causal body. I am sure you have already thought about it. But what is important here is that what happens in deep sleep – tremendous rest. Rest means restoration of energy, clearing all the overburdening thoughts, etcetera. And we wake up fresh; another 24 hours are given to us. And then we wake up, do whatever we need to do in the waking state. And then we have ideas what to do, what not to do.

These thoughts that we cherish at daytime, they are called vrittis. And what we cherish at night, these very thoughts become more concrete, called dreams. So the waking state depends upon the dream state. Dream state depends upon the dreamless state. The gross body depends upon the subtle body. Subtle body depends upon the causal body.

The Triangle Revisited

And then again we come back here – that I mentioned earlier, you should not forget – triangle. I am the individual, and I cannot be sustained unless the world is there, which would supply to me food, drink, activities, experience, and knowledge. Through that experience and self-analysis, and that is how I go on improving. So the world depends upon me because if I do not recognise it, it will not exist – as it does so during the deep sleep state.

Similarly, remembering depends upon the waking state. So like that, Ishvara is manifesting as the presiding deities called Adhishthana Devatas, Adhidaivika, and Ishvara is manifesting as this world which consists of bhogya bhokta manifestations – enjoyer, enjoyed relationship.

Food Chains and Interdependence

For example, I eat fruits, my body grows. And a tiger looks at my body, and for it, I am the food. Fruits are the vegetables, fruits, leaves, roots – they are my food. I am the food for the tiger. And the tiger is also a prey to either other tigers or other human beings or other insects. So every creature in a jungle or forest is trying to kill the other one. Everything is subjected to be killed. So when something attacks, it becomes the subject; and when it kills, that killed is called the object of experience or enjoyment.

So life goes on depending upon each other. That's what in English they say: smallest fish is eaten by bigger fish, bigger fish is eaten by the biggest fish, and the biggest fish is eaten by human beings and other animals, and the animals are again eaten, or human beings are eaten by microbes, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. Everything is interdependent.

The Holistic View

As I mentioned, that was the most important message conveyed by that beautiful book, The Spring. I think her name was Rachel Carson, something like that; I forgot.

So this is the whole universe is dependent. But what is surprising is Ishvara is called as manifesting as the presiding deities, and without their power, we will not be able to see, to hear, to taste, to smell, to touch. And what is the world consisting of? These five elements only.

The Interdependent Triangle

So this is how entire Ishvara is dependent upon Jagat and Jiva. The Jiva, the individual, is dependent upon the world and Ishvara. And all the presiding deities, they are dependent upon the Jagat and Jiva. So this is the interdependent triangle: Adhyatmika, Adhibhautika, and Adhidaivika – the triangle of the creator, created, to experience relationship. Everything is interdependent.

And Sri Ramakrishna, as I mentioned, says humorously: if the devotees are not there, the greatness of Bhagavan disappears. So even Jiva and Deva, Jivatma, Paramatma – both are interdependent.

Fate and Free Will

Fate and free will, Prarabdha and Purushartha, and there are a few more details which we will talk about in our next class.

Conclusion: The Eye-Opener of Madhu Vidya

I think this discussion in this Madhu Vidya, Madhu Kanda, is one of the greatest eye-openers. And then if anybody is full of pride – "I don't depend upon anybody else" – we depend upon everybody else. If a person thinks, "I'm free, I'm independent," then that person is the idiotic of all idiots.

And that's why even a brahmajnani – I say when we become Brahman, we have no problem because we don't think, "I'm there, there is a world, and I'm dependent upon it." Even a brahmajnani doesn't think, "I am Brahma." Thinking is possible only when there is a mind, but a Brahma jivanmukta, he can think about it. What does he say? That I am the eater, I am the eaten, I am the subject, I am the object. So I am all the three bodies, I am all the three states of experience, I am the pancha koshas. Everything – me.

Khelati Brahmande Bhagavan – this beautiful Sanskrit bhajan by Sadashiva Brahmendra expresses this very idea so beautifully. And that is how we will have to understand here.

Sri Ramakrishna's Birth

In fact, I will end this talk. Sri Ramakrishna is born. Why is he born? Because he is worried: "Nobody is thinking about me." That means when people stop thinking about God and thinking only about the world, God gets worried: "I think people have forgotten me. Let me remind them how I also am, and I created. I am the creator. They should think of me; then only I will be a happy person." Any concept about God involves this mutual interdependence.

Closing Prayer

ॐ जननीं शारदां देवीं रामकृष्णं जगद्गुरुम् ।पादपद्मे तयोः श्रित्वा प्रणमामि मुहुर्मुहुः

Om Jānānāṃ Śāradāṃ Devīṃ Rāmakṛṣṇaṃ Jagadgurum Pada Padme Tayo Śṛtvā Praṇamāmi Muhur Muhuh

May Rāmakṛṣṇa, Holy Mother, and Swami Vivekānanda bless us all with Bhakti.

Jai Rāmakṛṣṇa!