Chandogya Upanishad Lecture 113 on 21-June-2025

Full Transcript (Not Corrected)

अम् जननीम्शारदाम् देवीम् रामक्रिष्णम् जगत् गुरुम् पादपद्मेतयो स्रित्वा प्रणमामिमुहुरुमु

Oṁ jananīṁ śaradāṁ devīṁ rāmakṛṣṇaṁ jagad-gurum pāda-padmetayōśritvā

praṇamāmi-mohurumō

Oṁ āpyāyantu mamāṅgāni vākprāṇaścakṣuḥ śrutra-mathu bala-mindriyāṇi ca sarvāṇi

sarvam brahmau paniṣadam māham brahma nirākuriyām

mā mā brahma nirākarot anirākaraṇam astva nirākaraṇam me astu

tadātmani nirate yau paniṣadsu dharma te mai santu te mai santu

Oṁ śānti śānti śāntih Hāre Oṁ

Oṁ may my limbs, speech, vital force, eyes, ears as also strength and all the organs become well developed everything is the brahman revealed in the Upanishads

may I not deny brahman, may not brahman deny me let there be no spurning of me by brahman

let there be no rejection of brahman by me may all the virtues that are spoken of in the Upanishads

repose in me who am engaged in the pursuit of the self may they repose in me

Oṁ Peace Peace Peace be unto all

In our last class we have completed Section 11 of 8th Chapter of Chandogya Upanishad. Where in we saw that Prajapathi had declared that whoever realizes the Atman or Brahman or God would get eternal life, all knowledge and Eternal infinite unbroken bliss both the Gods and Demons heard this from Various people. And they were more desirous of being happy, fulfilling all their desires, rather than having a clear concept of God realization, Brahman realization. But this is what also, we are also searching for

for eternal life and infinite bliss and the pure consciousness that we are eternally blissfully happy.

Sath, Chit, Ananda, this is the unspoken, unconscious prayers of all of us. So both of them approached, as we know Prajapati had asked them to live 32 years preparing their minds so that all the impurities of the minds could be removed, otherwise one will

not be able to understand what the teacher is talking about. This applies not only to God knowledge but any type of knowledge. A person who has no mathematical mind cannot understand what is mathematics, for example Sri Ramakrishna himself, he said, I could never do maths, I could sing, I could remember very well, I could act, I could meditate, but this calculation is impossible. So for any type of knowledge, even if it is knowledge of pickpocketing, one must be having certain qualifications, left fingers, lightening type of thinking, otherwise when he has first attained it, he will be killed. So this living with the Guru, as we have seen in the Bhagavad Gita, So Prajapati asked them, be fit to receive and then this reception of the knowledge of Brahman or Atman by Prajapati had progressed in four stages.

We have already seen, this is just to remind ourselves what we studied. The first stage was that I am not the physical body or the physical world, I am not the individual, but I am the universal, I am the Virat, I am the witness or Sakshi Chaitanyam of both the

body and the world also. Here a very important point, as an individual, we are terribly limited by time, space and object, Desha, Kala, Vastu, Paricheda, limitation, but the moment we become Virat, then everything that happens in this world, what is Virat?

The universal self, that self which identifies itself with the entire universe which of course includes our body and mind, everything what we call the physical aspect of creation, that is called Virat and when a person identifies himself as Virat, he will have neither friends

nor enemies, neither family members nor strangers and neither insult nor honour, neither losing nor gaining because it is like each person is one's own self, so who is the stealer, robber, who is robbed, who is honoured, who is insulted, no, who wins, who loses, only

himself like a person playing solitaire game for entertainment, it is called Leela. So that was the first stage is when Indra and Virochana were taught that what you see the physical body has reflected in the eye, in waters, in a mirror, meaning purely the

physical body, the individual body and that is the Atman, they did not understand, so the representative of demons went happily preached, very the Upanishad itself gives a beautiful name Asuri Upanishad, demons Upanishad, what is Upanishad?

That which a person thinks is real knowledge is called Upanishad. So these are called materialists but Indra he had really done the Sravana, he was fit person to that extent, so he also at first returned with satisfied mind but on the way he started deeply cogitating, doing Mananam and then he understood the defects, physical body, any body it has lot of defects, severely limited, subject to birth, growth, old age, disease, weakness, death but what was the declaration, those what is called eightfold qualities Abhahatapatma, Vijaraha, Vishokaha, Vimrutyuhu etc.

So this teaching or what Indra understood, what I understood from the teaching of Prajapati doesn't tally with this, so it cannot be that and with that he came, so during 32 years, another 32 years, what do you think that Prajapati was doing, simply squeezing his fingers or

yaning or not doing anything, slowly he must have been teaching until he thought that this physical body, individual body is not the self but the Virat, how do we know that this is the right interpretation because we see in the Taittiriya Upanishad third chapter

Annam Brahmetiv Yajanath, here Virat Brahmetiv Yajanath, so he understood I am not the individual body but I am the universal body but even that universal body, even though it is far less limited but still limited, so then as soon as he came back 32 years again he became more purified, approached that is when the second stage started where Prajapati taught Indra, Indra alone because Virochana never returned that that Purusha, that consciousness, Purusha means consciousness which you experience in dreams that is the Atma, as usual Indra misunderstood or did not comprehend it, so he became satisfied, he started returning back, on the way by now he became more pure, so he started thinking even more deeply because whatever we do again and again becomes stronger and stronger, so this time his Manana it said that even though physical body may be blind, may be one eyed, may be having some disease, defect and subject to death, fear, happiness, unhappiness but these need not be binding the person in the dream, you may be here physically but in your dream you may be in America, you may be completely filled your stomach with good food but as soon in your dream you might see visions of some food and you feel ravenously hungry, so there is some freedom, it need not reflect the physical body, so to that extent it is much better than the physical body but not free from defects, what is the defect? Desha, Kala, Vastu, Paricheta, limitations by time, space and object, there here he may be an unmarried person and there in the dream he may be married person, here he may be a lowly clerk, in dream he may be a king, he could be anything but everything is refined no doubt but it is also full of defects, there also somebody insults, he will feel very bad, there also he is helpless, there also for example if physically one is one eyed, he may imagine though I find it hard to believe when a person from the birth is one eyed or blind for him to dream that he is completely a seeing person, I think it is very rare, it is doubtful unless he is remembering his past lives but the point is even dream is first of all is very short time, one cannot

go on living in a dream world forever, secondly even within the dream world so somebody can come and beat him, somebody can praise him, he can become an emperor, an emperor can feel like King Janaka, it is said that he dreamt that an enemy declared war upon him and then drove him out of his kingdom and he had to run for three days, ravenously hungry, he reached a village, he reached a place where food was being distributed, he asked for food, he was the last in the queue and he was about to faint and when his turn came the food was exhausted excepting for some scraps at the bottom, burnt etc., even that was requested by this king and he, the distributor must have looked at him but felt pity and gathered whatever was there and then he gave him in a leaf plate and when he was about to swallow it immediately a bird came and knocked the whole thing and it became one with dust and then he woke up, he did not understand immediately when he woke up that I am the Jagrat Purusha, so he started, he was still the influence of that dream, what is reality, am I a beggar or am I a king, what is the reality, few days passed a great sage had come, a wandering monk and he informed him, oh king neither this waking state is real nor that dream state is real, implying even the deep sleep state is not real, you who go through these three states, you alone are real, then he became enlightened, remember there was terrible famine at Jayarambati, holy mother was a young girl and Ramachandra Mukhopadhyayam, holy mother's father, so compassionate, he had some stock of this rice and he started making khichdi so that one can eat and then it was known, a girl came starving and there was some food kept in the cow shed for the cows and then this you know rice husk is mixed there and cows love it and we miss it because it is the skin just below the husk and what we eat is not of course husk but even that thin skin which is sweet and very savoury that is lost by us because we grind it so much, the machines remove that one also, so she fell to eating that food given to the cows and people were telling my child you don't eat, we have got khichdi, come inside but who will listen, so you see even the sva[na purusha is subject to the same travails that exist in the waking state even though we have time wise, space wise and object wise we have got a little more freedom and not much and if we extend that

analogy physically we may be suffering very less but mentally also if it is pleasure, great pleasure, if it is pain it could be great pain because it is our imagination, kalpataru so that was the second stage and again he came back, again 32 years he lived with

Prajapati and Prajapati definitely must have enlightened him during these 32 years and finally Indra realised I am not even the what is called the theses or the dream self but I am the hiranya garbha, much more freedom, much less limitation, so I am not the physical

body, I am not the mind also and at first he seemed satisfied after realising I am not the supta purusha then Prajapati in the third stage taught him about the supta purusha or that atman which is very much shining in the third stage that is called deep sleep which

is called in the Upanishad supta purusha sleeping atman, really atman doesn't sleep but atman associated with the sleeping state wherein body is not functioning, mind is not functioning both are merged in that state and therefore absolutely there is no sorrow but at the same time there is no worry also, at the same time there is no conscious experience of happiness also only after getting up we say so kam aham asvapsam not before that so you see that is happening so then at first like the previous two times then he understood aha that is samprasan aha that is absolute serenity is there so he went away satisfied by this time of what is called almost 96 years of purification that is living with the guru he became a great

expert in manana on the way now he used all his powers of deep thinking and then very soon he found out there are defects what are the defects of the supta purusha no doubt there is no pain no fear no worry no fear of death or birth or anything no doubt but no creature

knows that I am in deep sleep at least in the waking state we know we are aware in the dream state we are aware that we are experiencing though we don't call it a dream at that time but we are experiencing but in this deep sleep state I don't know who I am only after

waking up I know that is the first thing second thing is even this third stage also it is called karana sharira causal body cause means it leads to effect which means the person is not free forever only that particular time that too unconsciously then he feels something wakes him up then again he has to go through the first stage second stage third stage is brahmachakra the wheel of brahman goes on and on and on I do not know whether I am even alive whether I am enjoying what good is there there is no good at all and he came back and then he as usual prajapati asks him you went away satisfied oh indra magavan what happened what brings you back and then indra says this is the defect I see I see only fear fear means defect this cannot be the atman which you described as immortal

etat amrutam abhayam apahata paapma vishokaha vijaraha this cannot be that one and prajapati appreciates and says you have understood it absolutely correctly live another five years and then he lived five years again as usual we have to exercise our imagination and then there must be every day some class some discussions will be going on maybe indra was not the only pupil there might be others living with prajapati prajapati means brahma are the first of the creation called sabana brahma and he had many disciples also we will come to know about it from the mundaka upanishad etc. so he must have realized that what did he realize like the first and second stage I am not the supta purusha I am not the prajna I am not the vishwa I am the virat I am not the tiges I am hiranyagarbha here also I am not the prajna I am the universal ishvara and according to advaita vedanta ishvara is also limited because saguna brahma anything with saguna is a dvithiya so indra realized I am not the jagrat swapna sushupti avasthas I am not the vishwa tigesa and prajna I must be something and that final something is going to be taught after five years of living with the guru so that is what we have seen so far so indra returns for the fourth time so there was a conversation and indra found out the fact expressed it and then prajapati consented approved evam eva esha maghavan iti havo acha absolutely you are spot on you have understood correctly evam tu eva so it is indra te bhuyo anivyakhya now I cannot be the atman cannot be the deep sleep state or prajna so I will teach you something now where you will go even beyond this karana sharira so no eva anyatra etha sma asau aparani panchavarshan iti another five years and he did that then here shankaracharya comments beautifully what happened to indra after one hundred and one years of that brahmacharya

means everything possible to become a yogya adhikari a fit disciple for hearing the highest truth about atman only at that stage usually the guru will give you like prajapati that tattva masi then he has to do mananam he has to do ridhidhyasanam then he will understand aham brahmashmi so shankaracharya comments and it is very helpful what does shankaracharya say so tasmai means to him maghavate to maghavan indra ha ovacha he thought who who thought prajapati thought to whom to indra what type of indra tasmai to that indra mridhita kashaya adi dosha one who is free completely who has been completely cleansed of the all the defects kashaya adi dosha what is kashaya yoga vignas laya vikshepa kashaya ananda and shankara expounds sthanatraya dosha sambandha rahitam atmanah swaroopam what is the real nature of the self atmanah sthanatraya dosha sambandha rahitam rahitam bereft sambandha from all relationships attachments feeling that i am but sthanatraya dosha the defects what are the defects traya means three sthana means avastha traya dosha sambandha rahitam i am not the baker i am not the dreamer i am not the sleeper not only that shankara adds apahata papatvadi lakshanam so this atman which is swaroopam is apahata papa bereft of papa not that the atman does some papa and then washes it and becomes flu it can never be attached to papa why papa or sin or defects can only come because of the body because of the mind or because of these three bodies one who is bereft of the three bodies which is called turya that turya atma is not a state that is the real nature so that atman bereft of all these three vishwa, taijasah and prajna characteristics along with pirat and hirani garbha and eshwara lakshanas that which doesn't even know what is called saguna brahma tasmai magavate ha huvaaja he taught

as the impurities lingering in Indra's mind were very little because 96 years he had been removing little by little it wasn't necessary for him to stay for another 32 years so only 5 years so this remark is to extol this knowledge of the atman to acquire which even the kings of the gods had to live a brahmacharya a disciplined life in the teacher's house for such a long time so why this 101 years it is to extol whether it be god it be human being or anybody if this person wants to realize the atman like indra he has to go through why should he go through it is not because they are the what is called necessary qualities it is because our minds are full of these impurities caused by maya and what is that maya i am not the atman i am not the brahma so with this we are entering into the section 12 so what is the section 12 about so what did we discuss so far all the three states three stages i am not the vishwa i am not the virat i am not the taisesha i am not the hrini garbha i am not the prajna i am not the ishwara then what remains only that asari atma incorporeal self the real self also called atman or brahman for the sake of easiness we call him god though the word god brings to our memories.

the creator god the god who holds a rod and then who rules all over us no here god means as ram krishna says ishwara ishwara means nirguna brahma so this is the teaching of the 12th section and this is the last section of prajapati's teaching though some examples are given 13 14 and 15 sections but with this brahma vidya upadesha is over this from the 7th to 12th sections the 6 sections are the most important sections i will give you a small introduction to this which is the very essence if you listen carefully it ill be easier for us to deal with it after indra's arduous and prolonged spiritual preparation prajapati finally reveals the ultimate truth about the atma so what is that limitations of embodied and psychic existence that is limitations of body as well as the mind prajapati begins by emphasizing that the physical body is perishable and overwhelmed by death and not to speak of pains insults losses honours etc etc so prajapati clarifies that the atman cannot be the visible body or anything physical because all physical things have defects that also true everything that we can see is limited by the very fact of being perceived because a perceived thing requires a perceiver there itself the limitation has come the subject and the object instrument of perceiving or experiencing and various other factors then prajapati extends this understanding of the physical body to the mind also to the individuality psychic individuality so that means the mind is also equally finite limited and conditioned in the exactly in the same way as the physical body therefore both body and mind are the subject to limitation in space and time and object and therefore subject to death what about the supta purusha then a little different from this body and mind what is the difference so the experience of deep sleep seems to be free from turmoil is also deemed insufficient as it is a causal condition containing the seed of life because as soon as it comes to an end and it will come to end of life for waking dream states and thus still connected to a phenomenal universe like a seed beautiful example if the movement you put the seed comes into contact with the earth even after hundreds or thousands of years as soon as a little rain comes immediately the seed gets destroyed or gets woken up it blossoms into a seedling into a plant and depend upon what it is it may become even a banyan tree even giving birth to seeds because this sushupti avastha karana sharira karana sharira is also limited because it is called causal body cause is there where there is cause the effect is inevitable so as long as one has body whether it is physical or psychic or even the deep sleep karana sharira even if a person goes to paradise one cannot escape pleasure and pain freedom is a chimera as long as there is bodily individuality so we are talking about these are finite things what is finite finitude is defined as the consciousness of something being outside of oneself and of something limited limiting one's own being for example if I see you then first of all that thing is limited and second is that thing limits me because when there are two things each limit the other thing so I am limited automatically that is called finite you but what about the atman it is bodiless impersonal and universal so prajapati states that these difficulties do not arise when the body vanishes and one experiences a bodiless existence that means if somebody realizes I am turiya all these limitations will go because limitations belong to the three bodies physical, mental and causal

but the mind being a hand made of bodily experiences cannot conceive of bodiless existence so it is not possible with this mind to conceive of a bodiless existence so the atman is not a physical body nor it is an abstraction but it is of the nature of complete freedom that is beyond any limitation so the atman is merely a finitization of this impersonal being all our bodies are nothing but that atman's finitude so this concept is likened to the subtle nature of water vapour compared to ice or even more subtle elements that are causes of grosser manifestations with this we are entering now into the 12th section of the 8th chapter so we read this is the translation O Indra if this body is mortal always held by death when not at the end of hundred years every millisecond every past second was a death every present second is not even second millisecond is a new body whatever is gone it will not come but this body is the abode of the self which is immortal and incorporeal this embodied self is always the victim of pleasure and pain so long as one is identified with the body there cannot be any cessation of pleasure and pain but neither pleasure nor pain touches one who is not identified with this body a beautiful incident just now I remembered Sarama Krishna was suffering from throat cancer this incident happened at Kausipur almost a few months before he is giving up the body one day the pain was intolerable suddenly Sarama Krishna withdrew his mind and so many devotees were stunned they were staring at him unable to bear the insufferable pain Sri RamaKrishna was going through Sri RamaKrishna entered into samadhi state and then partially he came down this comes at the end of the gospel and then Sarama Krishna is exclaiming now I feel no pain at all I am Ananda Swaroopa I see God everywhere there there Lato is there he is half reclined with his head in his hands I see God himself is lying in that position so this is a marvelous state of a Jeevan Mukta

he is aware of the body but he is above the body consciousness well others cannot understand him he knows I am not the body that is the speciality of a Jeevan Mukta even seeing the body first he doesn't say this is my body secondly he doesn't see anybody he sees but he doesn't see it as we see it he sees it as you know how a psychiatrist a good psychiatrist suppose a patient is brought to that psychiatrist and the patient thinks I am Napoleon now the psychiatrist has two ideas about this man he knows this is really not Napoleon he is XYZ but he also knows identifies with the patient and says but at this particular period of time this patient is under the delusion I am Napoleon so I have to help him so he sees the real nature he also sees the delusion and he feels tremendous pretty and he tries to help this person somehow get rid of that anybody who doesn't have this double vision he is not fit he cannot help other people why first condition is a person must be free from all delusions himself secondly if he sees everybody as God he will not feel like helping because there is no need to help in God but then he sees God at the same time ignorance operating and so he says that I have to help these people and that too by the will of God only an individual who identifies himself with God he doesn't have any individual will once emerges in Brahman is Brahman who decides what to do what not to do with that previously existing body and mind that's very important point that's why Sri Ramakrishna says that Sri Ramakrishna says that Shankaracharya kept the ego of knowledge Narada kept the ego of devotion but then he corrects later on it is not they kept it is Brahman who kept in one the idea that I am a Gnani the idea I am a Bhakta in those minds that is what Sri Ramakrishna is referring that's why always Sri Ramakrishna says NAHAM NAHAM TUHU TUHU so we will just analyse a little bit O Indra this body is mortal always held by death every billy second it is undergoing change every change is only an indication of death even when you say that was my previous thought that was dead and in between there is a no man's land which is called pure consciousness as soon as the second thought comes again we are bound so it is foolish to expect immortality in the body not only that pain and pleasure good and evil victory and defeat respect and disrespect and profit and loss everything that happens but what is the speciality of this body O Indra you have a body you have a mind if you did not have this one you would not have come to me you would not have desired to realize Atman so Indra this body though mortal always held by death but it is Brahmapuram

it is the abode of the self which is immortal and incorporeal and then what is the contrast between body and Atman the embodied self that is those who think I am the body mind always is the victim of pleasure and pain so long as the one is identified thinking always I am this body Apahati means destruction destruction of this is dear and this is not desirable this is desirable this is something happy this is something unhappy that cannot be removed that means anybody with body consciousness has to go through priya apriya

there is no remedy for that there is no cessation of pleasure and pain in various ways one point every experience that we have are judged only by two values these are called judgmental values what are they happiness and unhappiness pleasure and pain

you are elevated to a position you may think it is a pleasure or you are demoted or don't have a job that is called displeasure so you are eating good food happiness you are not getting food or bad food unhappiness you are able to meet some good people it is a joy

or able to meet only wicked people it is a pain whatever be the experience throughout our life the final judgmental values are is it leading me to happiness or unhappiness so how much happiness how much unhappiness so if a person is progressing towards God spiritual called spiritual progress person must always say am I more happy than before am I more a better person more good person more sat purusha than before purusha is nothing to do with male or female purusha means personality then is my wisdom growing or not these three grow together so if I am only becoming more disconsolate or depressed worrying even though I am doing japam and other things that means I am going down not going forward the prajapati illustrates this atman which is called incorporeal incorporeal means bodiless bodiless means not the cross body subtle body or causal body for example the wind is without body the cloud is without body the lightning is without body and thunder are without body now these arising from yonder akasha space and reaching the highest light appear in their own forms simple meaning is that akasha space is there suddenly the wind starts moving without space wind cannot move so where was it before it came and where is it after it disappeared it became one with space and similarly there were no clouds there are clouds again there are no clouds similarly suddenly you see there was no lightning and now lightning after that it is gone thunder there was no thunder now there is thunder and again there is no thunder so where from they are coming they are only manifesting for a short time and then they don't have any body because they go back immediately now as these arising from that yonder akasha and again going back merging in that same akasha reaching the highest light appear in their own forms these are examples for us to meditate upon atman beautiful subject we will talk about it in our next class

Jananim Saradham devim rama krishnam jagat gurum padhapadme dayosritva pranamaami mukha mukha ho may rama krishna holy mother and swami vekananda bless us all with bhakti Jaya Ramakrishna