Mandukya Karika Lecture 108 on 21-June-2023

Full Transcript (Not Corrected)

We have been studying the third chapter called Advaita Prakarana and it is all Gaudapada's teachings. Now he wants to see that we get the idea Jeeva is never created. That means I am not created, you are not created, nobody is created, the world is not created, nothing is created. And yet we can never understand this idea. Because we, for example, we who are attending this class, all our idea is this world is real, we are in bondage, we are suffering and the scriptures are telling us a Samsara is a bondage and there is a way out. This was what we discussed a few shlokas earlier. What did we discuss? Gaudapada is clearly telling us the whole world is a Mithya. Why do we want to attend classes in the beginning? For the first and only reason is that we have tried Samsara, it did not work out and we could not find any other way. But the scriptures tell if we turn to spiritual life we can get out of this Samsara. Therefore, what is the point? Samsara cannot give us any, show us any path, give us any relief and more importantly cannot give us unbroken happiness. So, important point we have to always keep in mind from the Advaitic point of view, Mithya. Mithya is a delusion, it is not unreal, neither it is real. That is the technical explanation of Mithya which is neither real nor unreal. And those concepts are very hard for us to even understand, let alone accept. But one fact is there and we are all experiencing it and we have to apply that fact. What is it? Everything that is born is going to die. This is called six-fold changes. Life is most of the time not pleasant. That is another fact. But the most important fact is everything is changing. Time means change, everything is changing, that there is a psychological scientific law. If we have to know something is changing we should be unchanging. Any changing entity can never know another changing entity. It is only an unchanging entity that can know about the changing entity. A changing entity can never be the unchanging entity and the unchanging can never be the changing. In simple words, a subject can never be the object, the object can never be the subject. Another important point is whatever is the object totally depends for its very existence, for its very recognition upon the subject. By definition every object is non-conscious, jada. And by definition subject is nothing but pure consciousness, not even a mixture of chaitanyam and jada, chitta and jada. No, pure consciousness.

But we are in a peculiar state. We have got a body-mind which in technical language is called jada. And this body-mind complex is identified with the chaitanyam. Chaitanyam is identified with the body-mind complex. So it came to be known as jeevatma and this jeeva. Very interesting fact is when the body is cut into pieces or burned or hurt anyway, the body, poor body will never know because it is jada. It is only the mind which is associated with consciousness that is called chidabhasa, reflection of the consciousness. That means there must be a reflector, a mirror, jada. So a pure consciousness reflecting in the medium of the buddhi called the mind. That alone cognizes I am hurt, I am happy, I am young, I am old, I am ill, I am well, etc. So this idea of mithya, don't bring in the idea of something very peculiar, incomprehensible. Bring always the idea everything is changing. Everything. My body is changing, the whole world is changing, my mind is changing, everybody's mind is also changing. And I am born, everybody is born, I am going to die, everybody is going to die. But I am struggling to keep alive, I am struggling to be wise, to get absolute knowledge. And I am struggling to obtain unbroken happiness. There is first of all no unbroken happiness in the world. Secondly even if it be there for the sake of argument. But when we are looking at the so-called unbroken happiness in the world, so long as we try to grasp it through the medium of body-mind, it will be limited only. Limited in time, limited in space also, quantity also, it is impossible.

Then how can I first of all get out of the body and mind? When we get out of the body-mind, do you know what happens? Even the entire world will disappear. Not only my body will disappear, when my Sthola Sarira disappears, the entire Jagrat Prapancha disappears. When my Sukshma Sarira disappears, our entire dream world disappears. How do we know? Because when we enter into the very natural state called sleeping state, we are only in indescribable bliss, Ananda. That is why it is called Anandamaya Kosha. Because the limitations of the body is too much, the limitations of the mind is also too much. But both these limitations we overcome in the state called Sushupti. But there is also a limitation there, it is called Karana Sarira. And so after a few hours we are forced to wake up and again enter into that state of Jagrath and Swapna. Therefore, through the limited instrument, even if there is unlimited something outside, through limited instrument we can never get unlimited something. That is how the concept of Mithya can help us. But we want unlimited existence, unlimited knowledge, unlimited unbroken happiness called Sat, Chit and Ananda. Is it possible? Yes, it is possible, not only possible, it is inevitable. And the concept is I am not going to attain Mukti. Why? Because I am already free, like a person who is dreaming that he is bound, he is actually free. Nobody bound him. But then his own thoughts bind him. He feels I am bound. And what should he do to get out of that state of bondage? He simply has to wake up. As soon as he wakes up he says, oh, I am in my own bed and I am completely free and so many things are there, marvellous things. So that is how this waking up from imagined bondage is the concept of Mukti by Advaita Vedanta.

Now, this is what Gaudapada wants to say that you are not in bondage. The world also is not in bondage. What is bondage? Birth, I am born, you are born, everything in the world is born. He wants to prove that's a wrong idea and he is giving some logical reasons for that. And this is what we have been seeing since the last class. Now, in my last class we were discussing about 26th Karika or Shloka of the third chapter called Advaita Prakarana. As I mentioned many times Gaudapada's language, I wish he sat down at the feet of Shankaracharya and learnt Sanskrit all over so that the teachings are absolutely marvellous. But the language is atrocious language. But that is what he is. Unfortunately Shankaracharya came later and Gaudapada was his grand Guru, Guru's Guru, Paramaguru. So his language we have to accept because it is what we call sugarcane juice. Rasogulla juice is also very enjoyable, sweet. Sugarcane juice also is very enjoyable juice. So, what is the problem? Problem is Rasogulla is extremely easy to squeeze the Rasam. All that you need to do is take the trouble of opening your mouth. But the sugarcane juice, Chakshu Rasam, my God, you have to bring it, cut it into pieces and then put it and then you are Vedantin Kanavarchu. And here you have to go on chewing, chewing, chewing and it may hurt also and then some rasam will come. Then you say, ah, so marvellous it is! This is the difference between Shankara's language and Gaudapada's language. One is Amra Rasam. Especially remember in Andhra Pradesh we have Rasalu. Rasalu, a type of mango, is just cut at the edge like opening up the Coca-Cola bottle and tilt it into your mouth and gently squeeze, rasam will be flowing. Shankaracharya's everything that he has written is such marvellous thing. But this Gaudapada's is like getting the juice from the sugarcane. Anyway, great man.

So, what is he talking here earlier? From earlier onwards he is telling this world really doesn't exist. Is it true? Absolutely true, but for us it is very difficult to understand. For that he gave earlier some hints. One of the hints is when we are dreaming and that example is going to come here very, very soon, any number of times it will come. When we are dreaming, if I come and tell you that this world is unreal. Not only it is unreal, actually it is your own creation. Especially very hard to believe. So, you are dreaming that somebody is coming and beating you black and blue. At that time I come and tell you, I start Raha. What a beautiful incident is happening here and you are likely to shoot me with whatever implement you have at hand. Why? I am suffering. I am suffering so much. Somebody is beating me black and blue. Instead of helping me, you are enjoying this scene. What type of man you are? So, that would be the same teaching Gaudapada wants to tell us. Even when you are suffering in this so-called waking state, that suffering is also of the same value as the dream. It is a beautiful example, we have to digest it. When we are dreaming, it is not a dream. So also, when we are experiencing this waking state, it is no different from the dream. What is the comparison between these two? The dream comes to an end and this dream called waking state also will come to an end. When we go into the dream state, the waking state comes to an end. When we wake up, the dream state comes to an end. But when we enter into the dream state, the waking state also comes to an end. We don't take notice of it. We only take notice of the end of the dream state. Everything seems to be real in the dream. Everything absolutely seems to be real in the waking state. But when we enter into the other state, every other state becomes unreal. So, we are swinging between reality, so-called reality and unreality. But there is a witness who is swinging, who is observing the change and he is neither a wakened person, nor a dreaming person, nor a sleeping person. He is called Turyaha in the fourth state. This is the point. So, at this state of our consciousness, the meaning we have to take for Mithya or Maya is everything is changing. So, today I may be very happy. I may have been very happy for a long time. But one millisecond change will come and then the more happy we were, the more unhappy we will become equally. These are some of the points to keep in background before we go into this.

Now, what is the Gaudapada struggling to convey to us? That Brahman, the supreme reality, has never become the world. Then earlier we have seen, then why do the scriptures speak of creation? That is for the children who cannot understand that a dream is a dream. It is not reality. So, it is first as if they accept the truth and later on to deny it. That actually you are, when the scriptures, Upanishads tell us, you are not the Dehi, you are not the body, you are not the mind. The idea conveyed is exactly what Gaudapada is trying to tell us. If you are not the body, entire Sthula Prapancha also disappears. When you are not the mind, the entire Sukshma Prapancha will disappear and when we are told you are not even the Karana Deha, causal body, then the entire Karana Prapancha also will disappear. There will be no Prapancha at all. But what remains? The pure consciousness remains and that is everyday experience. So, Gaudapada is not telling something strange, peculiar, but he is emphasizing very emphatically some things. That is why we consider him, that this particular theory he is trying to propagate is called Ajatiya Bhava, Ajati. Ajati means not caste, Jati means birth. What is it? The Jeeva is never born, the world also is never born, but very hard to accept and very hard to implement. But we will be forced to do it today or tomorrow, whatever it is, there is no doubt about it.

Now in this 26th Parika, what is he telling? That the scripture itself is telling and we know. What is it? Sa Esaha, that Atman, the Shruti passage there. It is not this, Neti Neti. Where is this Neti Neti? The words come in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, 4th chapter, 2nd section, 4th mantra says Sa Esaha, Saha means that, Esaha means Atma. Neti Neti, it is called Neti Neti, neither the Amurta Prapancha nor the Murta Prapancha, neither what is experienced as manifest and experienced also. Now we don't really experience but we guess, unmanifest world. Neti Neti Atma Agrahyaha Nahi Grihyate. Because what it is very difficult to deny. The unreality of what we are experiencing and we can never experience what is unmanifest. But we have to believe there is unmanifest. And this is what Yajnavalkya was teaching that there is only one word, Neti Neti. Everything is to be denied. Finally what in the summary? Body has to be denied, mind has to be denied, Karana Sharira is also to be denied. Then to deny there must be somebody. I am not this to say that I must be there. I am not the Sthula Prapancha, I must be there. I am not the Sukshma Prapancha, I must be there. Both these are called Amurta Prapancha and Nidra Prapancha. Karana Sharira, that is called unmanifest. And therefore there also I am not Karana Sharira. And then what remains? All the three forms disappear. What remains? I, the denier, the negator alone will remain. That is why it is said here so very difficult to understand. In the Upanishad, we have to understand this has been categorically declared as what this Atma is. Not the body, not the mind, not the Karana Sharira. Nihnuteyapaha. Nihnuteyapaha means negates. Everything is negated as not this, not this. Sarvam agrahya bhavena. So when everything is negated, can we understand that one? Very difficult. That is why it is called agrahya means extremely difficult to understand intellectually.

There are many things which are real but not acceptable, not understandable by the mind. So that is what he says. But we can become one. Why? Un-understandable because the five sense organs will not work there. The mind also will not work there. Therefore it is not possible for us to grasp it. That is why ito vacho nivartante aprapya manasasaha. Where along with the mind, along with the speech, both of them return. Because how can you describe what is beyond both mind and body? But that is what the scripture is telling. So we have to accept it. Sarvam agrahya bhavena. Hetuna ajam rakasate. When everything is denied, what remains? The denier, the negator. Who is the negator? If I am not the body and mind, it is Atman alone. I am that Atman. Very difficult to understand it. So that is what we have discussed. I am not the body, I am not the mind, but still what am I? We have to understand I am Atman, I am Brahman. Then in another two, three Karikas, Gaudapada is trying to prove the same fact. There is no birth of either Jeeva or the world. Same thing he is repeating it in different words and through Yukti. Not only through Shruti, through Yukti.

So 27th Karika,

सतो हि मायया जन्म युज्यते न तु तत्त्वतः ।

तत्त्वतो जायते यस्य जातं तस्य हि जायते ॥ २७ ॥

sato hi māyayā janma yujyate na tu tattvataḥ |

tattvato jāyate yasya jātaṃ tasya hi jāyate || 27 ||

So what does it mean? Means that which is ever existed appears to pass into birth through illusion, through maya, and not from the standpoint of reality. He who thinks that this passing into birth is real asserts as a matter of fact that what is born is born again. What is born is born again. As I said, this requires very sharp intellect to understand through logic but really it is very simple. What do these scriptures tell about Brahman? That he is Ajam, unborn. He is Ekam, he is only one and he is Anantam, he is infinite and he is Nityam. Ajo Nityah Sasvatayam. He is Ajah, unborn. He is Nityah, he is eternal. That means changeless. Brahman is changeless and if anybody says that this world has come from Brahman, why do we say? Because our own daily experience tells where from have I come? Ultimately we have to trace it from God only we have come. Instead of using the word God we are using the word here Sataha or Brahman. So we are firmly believing there is a creation because I am there, my body is there, my mind is there and I am studying the Pandukya world only because of the body-mind. How can I deny it? If anybody thinks logically what do the scriptures tell? Brahman is Ajah, Nityah, Ekah and he is Anantah. There is nobody else, he is infinite etc. etc. Now a logic a little bit. Let me first give an example. Supposing there is milk and when the milk becomes curds, is it changed or not? What is our experience? It is changed. So the milk doesn't remain as milk. It is available only as curds and curds also can you do? Very interesting point. Then it can become butter. So curds is disappeared. What it becomes? What does it become? Buttermilk. Buttermilk is a very strange word I explained many times. There is neither butter nor milk. That peculiar something which is left over after churning the butter and removing the butter is called buttermilk. Is it milk? No. Is it butter? No, it has been taken away. So what is the point? Milk doesn't remain as milk. So what does it, what is the logic is telling? Logic is the scriptures tell Brahman is changeless. Brahman is changeless like milk. But if the milk becomes curds, that is if you say that this Brahman has given birth to this creation, it is like milk becoming curds. That means Brahman will not remain ajaha, Brahman will not remain ekaha, Brahman will not remain nityaha, Brahman will not remain anantaha. He becomes finite and he becomes limited. All the opposite qualities will come. Do you accept that? No, it cannot be accepted. I hope you understand. So then how do you explain? Because we are experiencing the world and you are telling, you dare to come and tell me that Brahman has never becomes creation. But I am in the creation. I see the whole world world and it can be only attributed to God. How do you explain for that? They have a cunningly another type of argument. It is called vivartavada. Don't you see a snake? Yes. So when you see a snake, do you doubt it is a snake? No. And do you see the rope? No. Then when light is brought up, do you see the snake? No. What do you see? Rope. Now I ask you, is the rope worthless or not? Because whatever you were thinking earlier, this rope must have become a snake. Try to understand the analogy. That's all. So the rope has become a snake. Now what happened? The snake has again gone back into the condition of the rope. Do any one of us accept this? It's ridiculous. There was never any snake. I am only thinking there is a snake. Exactly. I'm thinking there is samsara. It is my thought. It is my delusional thought. It is my illogical thought. It is my ignorant thought. Really speaking, there is no samsara. How do we know? Because, very simple, when you go to sleep, do you experience the samsara? Do you experience sukha-dukha? Do you even know that you are a man or a woman? Do you know that you are a prisoner or you are a prison inspector? All those distinctions between myself and everything else will disappear. And then that is why that is a state of advaya, temporary advaita sthiti. That's why we are so happy. But when we wake up, we understand that that is the state experienced by the mindless state. Mind itself has merged into another state. This is also another example given. Sleep, there is no samsara. And nirvikalpa samadhi also, there is no samsara. Then, what is the difference between these two? The difference is enormous. What is the first difference? That you cannot go into sleep. When the sleep comes, it will come. It has its own sweet will. All that you can do is surrender yourself to it. Similarly, if you surrender to God, then only nirvikalpa samadhi will come, not otherwise. That is the first limitation. And then is it permanent or temporary? Sleep, I'm talking about sleep. It is temporary. So that is another thing. But the most important difference is, are you conscious that you are sleeping? Not really. But when you enter into nirvikalpa samadhi, I am Brahman, is a continuous state. It is permanent state and we are fully conscious. There is no unconsciousness there. After deep sleep, we wake up. Oh, it was so marvellous. I did not know how time passed. But when you enter into nirvikalpa samadhi, you don't wake up into another state. Oh, that was marvellous. And I experienced it. Marvellous joy. Never before in my life I experienced it. It is a permanent state. So sleep is temporary, nirvikalpa samadhi is permanent. In sleep, there is already a seed for waking up. In nirvikalpa samadhi, there is no seed for samsara. In sleep, we are not conscious. In nirvikalpa samadhi, we are fully conscious. So, this is why sleep is given as an example. Don't take it as a permanent state. But it gives a hint what samadhi really could be. With this background, let's come back to this 27th verse. Sataha means the ever-existent Brahman. Mayaya janma, that has taken birth as Jivatma, as this world, as I, as you and anybody else. Yujyate mayaya. Only because of maya, it appears as if the rope has become the snake. Natu tattvataha. Tattvataha means in reality Brahman can never become anything. It remains only Brahman. Ajam nirvikalpam. Tattvataha. And then he gives a beautiful analogy. Tattvataha jayate yasya. Jatam tasya hi jayate. Supposing, for argument's sake, Brahman has really become samsara. How does Brahman can become samsara in reality? Like milk really changing into curds. That means Brahman cannot remain as Brahman. If Brahman doesn't remain in Brahman, have you ever seen at any time milk has become curds and after one hour I'm tired of being curds. I will go back into the milk state. Have you ever seen permanent change? So this is the first argument. What is the second argument? Brahman, anything that is changing cannot be the final cause. Everything that is changing has come out of something else. So if we attribute this argument to Brahman and if Brahman really has become samsara, that means it is changing. So Brahman is changing. A changing Brahman cannot be the final cause. It must be having some other cause. And if you go on saying like that, that next cause which gave birth to Brahman must also be changing because it has given birth to Brahman. And the second Brahman also because it gave birth, it is a changing Brahman. So we enter into what is called infinite regress. That is not desirable. So Brahman never becomes the creation. That means if Brahman is not the cause, if there is no cause there is also no effect. If Brahman is not the cause, samsara also will disappear. There will be no samsara. But what is our experience? We see the samsara. So for that what is the explanation? Temporary explanation is like our mistaking a rope for a snake. When the light is brought out, then we clearly recognize that there was no snake. It was only because of my fear I imagined. So imagination is not reality and we find this greatest mistake that we commit in life is called Shobhana Adhyasa. That certain things if I obtain, whole life I will be happy. Actually I will not be happy. Ramakrishna gives a beautiful example. An old man married a young girl and ever since his marriage he kept on becoming a watchman. 24 hours watching his wife whether she is sporting with somebody young man or the other. So to put it simply what it means Brahman never has given birth. This samsara is only just a mistake in our mind. Mind is the real problem. How do we know? Because when the mind merges in sleeping state there was no samsara. There was no dukkha. A prisoner is not a prisoner. A man to be hanged is not going to be hanged and we know this very clearly. So this is all I can explain in the simplest way possible. That is what Gaudapada wants to say. That which is ever existent, that means never changing, appears to pass into birth, appears to change, that is becoming the samsara only through illusion because of maya and where is that maya? In our mind. That means we are interpreting Brahman as if it is making creation, not really. From the Brahman's point of view there is no creation. From our point of view there is creation. It is all a trick of the mind and not from the standpoint of reality. He who thinks that this passing into birth is real, really is committing a logical fallacy. What is that fallacy? That which if at all if it is born, it is a changing factor and a changing factor can never be the cause of anything because it itself is the cause of, itself is the effect of something else. Therefore, we enter into infinite regress. What is the scripture saying? Ajah and Baran. Nityah, eternal. Eternal means what? Never changing. Anantah, that means he is one. Anantah, infinite. It is not a number of parts put together. It is infinite, means one only. So, what is the samsara? It is ever-changing. It is not one and Brahman is Brahmananda Swaroopa. What is this world? Sukha Dukha Swaroopa. Sometimes happy, sometimes unhappy because it is changing, ever-changing. I hope I was able to convey this logical contradiction will come if we accept that Brahman has really become the samsara. But remember, that is the highest truth. But we, for us, samsara is real. What should we do? You will not understand also real. Until we become Brahman, it is not possible to understand this statement. Then what is our duty? Our duty is to worship the same Brahman as Saguna Brahma, as the creator. Live a good life according to the directions of the scriptures and then slowly mind becomes purer. That means desires become less. That means the happiness is produced from within. We don't depend upon anything external for our happiness. We depend upon God which is our own real self within. So, the less we have desires, the less it becomes distracted, the more concentrated it becomes and there only we intuit that divine. This is called progressing in spiritual life. This is called approaching God nearer and nearer and the nearer we approach God, the more we become Sat, Chit and Ananda Swaroopa and that is how we have to progress in life. Then what happens? Finally, we cannot, we are able to think only of God and that one thought of God, the Saguna Brahma is called, it goes by the name Brahmakara Vritti and once we attain Brahmakara Vritti, the effort of the mind comes to an end and then something takes over that Ishwara called Saguna Brahma and we go so near. Just as a piece of thin paper approaches, is taken to a fire, when it is sufficiently nearer the fire, it becomes so hot, very soon it bursts into flames. Like that, the Brahmakara Vritti is destroyed by Brahman. That Vritti called Akara is destroyed, what remains is Brahman. Brahmakara Vritti, that Akara Vritti is destroyed, what remains is Brahman and this same idea we discussed in this 27th is repeated with an example by Gaudapada. First of all the example, Vandhya Putra, beautiful words, a son of a barren woman, woman is there but she is barren and she has a son. We can use words but is it real? Is that really? So, na tatvena, either really, mayaya or even through the power of illusion. Vandhya Putra na jayate, it is impossible to imagine the birth of a barren woman but we can use it for the sake of play. This is the example, with this example what does Gaudapada wants to say? Asataha mayaya janma tatvataha naiva yujyate, whether Brahman becomes this samsara. Asataha tatvataha. Asataha means what? Unreally. Tatvataha means really. Just as Vandhya Putra, really or delusionally cannot be born. Creation also, really creation cannot be born for the reasons we discussed earlier and unreally also. That is what he is trying to tell us. This samsara is called unreal. The snake is unreal because we are experiencing it, we are forced to tell it is unreal. So, just as Vandhya Putra's existence, existence of the world is also either really or magically it is not possible. So, creation is not possible at all. Is this the correct statement? Yes, that is what, really speaking that is what is the truth but this truth can never be understood at this stage of our development. So, what should we do? I told you just now, you go on doing Upasana, you have to go on doing worship, Tirtha Yatra, scriptural study, attend the classes, become. There is here also a point I have to remind, so many people do it but their selfishness will never go away. So, the purpose of all these spiritual activities is to reduce our selfishness. So, we have to share whatever we have to the extent possible with others because there is no other. Everybody is a God only but without becoming unselfish there are billions of people who go on doing. Not only they don't become unselfish, they will become more selfish, more cruel like some religions. If you do not accept our religion, we are going to cut your throat, we are going to in the name and this country belongs to us. It is one country, one country policy and go on trying to occupy, to kill people and they do not understand how much suffering they have to undergo in future as a result of these evil activities. So, to reinforce what we discussed, there is no real creation but we are experiencing creation only because of Maya. Maya creation is not real creation therefore even when we are experiencing the snake, there is no real snake. If somebody pushes you towards that snake, you may die because of your fight but if you fall upon that snake, neither that snake is going to die nor you are going to die because there is no real snake. You are falling upon really only a rope. Even if you fall by mistake or somebody forcibly wants you to die, pushes you onto that snake, you are not going to die because the snake is unreal. An unreal snake cannot do really anything and to reinforce that one, in the 29th Karika, Gaudapada is giving us another example. We have discussed this point especially in the second chapter called Vaitatya Prakarna. What does it mean? Just as in a dream, the mind acts through Maya presenting the appearance of reality, so also in the waking state, the mind acts as though Maya presenting the appearance of reality. What does it mean? I hope it is not too difficult. When you go to dream state, whatever you are experiencing is unreal but you may not realize that it is unreal so long as you are dreaming but when you wake up you understand somebody praises you that is not unreal while experiencing dream. Somebody criticizes you that is also real so long as you are dreaming. You will not accept it but then what is the point? Dvaya Vasa means the whole dream world is created by your mind, by my mind, by anybody's mind, whoever is dreaming and Dvaya means duality. What is the duality? I and everything else. In this waking state also there are only two things, don't say millions of things, only two things, I and everything else. I fall into one category, everything else falls into second category, only two. So just as in this Vapana, in the dream, the mind because of its Samskaras creates this duality of the subject and objects. How many subjects? Only one subject. How many objects? Can be many number of objects. So Spandate that means created by whom? By Manaha. And how does it create? Maya. Here Maya means what? Its Samskaras. That is if you are happy that is one Samskara. In the dream if somebody is beating you up that is another Samskara but when you wake up you understand the reality of both what you gained, what you lost, everything is absolutely nothing because nothing really happened. With that example, if we understand that example apply it to the waking state. Tatha, exactly the same way. Jagrat Dvaya Avasam. In this waking state also there are only two things, I and everything else. And who creates this division? Manaha. Our mind only creates in the waking state also I am the subject, everything else is the object. And how does it create? Through Maya. What is the Maya? Maya is here Purva Janma Samskara. Purva Janma Karma Krita Samskara. How? Purva Janma Karma Phalaha. That is what is called Prarabdha. Who created this body? Me. Who created this mind? Me. If I am a good person who made me good? Me. If I am an evil person who created me? Me only. So this is called, earlier I discussed with some length what is called Drishti Srishti Vada and Srishti Drishti Vada. The essence of it is that I am the creator of the entire world and a raw material is God. But how I fashioned it is my own Samskara. So this is a beautiful point and what does Gaudapada wants to convey? Really there is no creation, it is a seeming creation. How do we know? Because whatever we create both in the waking state as well as in the dream state, as soon as we enter into the sleeping state both of them completely disappear and whatever disappears can never be real.

Questions

I just want to know is it fair to understand that in reality this whole of the Samsara, Jiva, Jagat, Ishwara, everything is an incredibly beautiful dream of Brahman himself? Yes, at this moment don't say Brahman because Brahman never dreams. I don't know. Let us say me the Jiva through my Samskara just as I am creating the dream and that we understand easily upon waking up. But unfortunately we don't wake up from this waking state so we can never understand, equate it with the dream state. We can understand through logic when we enter suppose you are in UK, you dream you are in India. When do you realize that you are never in India? While waking up. Only upon waking up isn't it? Yeah. So who created that illusion that I am in India? Myself. Exactly. So important simple point is everything is changing. Many times we discuss waking is changing into dream. Dream is changing into sleep. Yeah. And sleep is again changing into waking. Correct. So the point is for this you don't need to be very spiritual. Correct. Everything is changing is everybody's experience isn't it? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you cannot, what is our problem? Our problem is we are expecting some things should not change. That is when I am happy it should continue isn't it? And never should I encounter unhappiness isn't it? Yeah. But if everything is changing will this be changing or will it remain according to your wish? According to the wish. Are changing factors or not? In reality not. So emphasize, hold on to that. I was born, I was a baby, I was grown up, I was married. Now I am in my declining stage or ascending stage. Declining but actually a delightful stage. Very good. So not really a decline, not in declining definitely not declining because this is the time when is one is really waking up. So how can it be declining? Okay, you be in that state only. There's just one little question. Who is it that is seeking? The self is seeking its own self? No, neither the self is seeking nor the mind is seeking. It is a combination of the self with the mind because the mind will not work without the self. And the self itself will not be able to express seeking or non-seeking without the mind. This combination of the mind, this concept of Jivatma itself we are confused. Jivatma means a combination of Chit and the mind. The Chidambhasa, isn't it? The nearer we are able to, isn't the seeking gross? So you understand now it is neither the self nor the mind but a combination of body and mind. But the more the mind is getting purified, the seeking grows even more, isn't it? Seeking grows but its direction, the object is self.

So Maharaj, in effect the root causes of all those issues and challenges is the mind itself. Correct. Absolutely correct. And the spiritual practices helps us purify that mind to get to that state where it becomes very clear about Brahman. Correct. Absolutely. Okay. So as we progress in spiritual life, what happens is what we are seeking in the outside world until now, what are we seeking? Happiness, isn't it? Yes, Maharaj. As we progress in spiritual life without depending upon any object in the world, our happiness is growing, isn't it? Yes, Maharaj. That means our desires are redundant, isn't it? Yes, Maharaj. That means the mind doesn't become agitated, correct? Yes. And so that is how slowly our desires become less, that is called Chitta Shuddhi, purification of the heart. Okay, Maharaj. So Maharaj, these teachings in that sense has very strong linearity with psychiatry or psychology. Yes, I told you about a particular psychological treatment, CBT. That is very, very useful. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, CBT, that is bring about in the cognition, that is cognitive means change in our thinking process. Okay. So the events, the world, it will not change, but how it impacts our mind, that can be changed and that training is no less than spiritual sadhana. Okay. In that way, this psychology is very much helpful. Our whole problem is what? Mind. That's why I told you when in the deep sleep, what happens to the mind? Mind doesn't function and therefore is there any problem? Nope. And so bondage as well as liberation. There is a beautiful verse, mind alone is the root cause of both bondage and then liberation and you apply it to any worldly situation. Any worldly situation, it is only the thought process, bring about a change in the thought process. Understand? Yes, Maharaj. In fact, I would go so far as to say that spiritual life has nothing to do with spirit. It is only bringing about a change in the thinking. Mind. Yes, when your mind becomes so pure that there would be only Brahman remaining, nothing else remains, isn't it? Yes, Maharaj. Imagine as a room in your house, thousands of things are there and brilliant light is illuminating all those things. They create either happiness or unhappiness and start throwing out one after the other the objects. Ultimately, no object is there excepting empty room and brilliant light. Our mind will become filled with that light. The more things we throw out, the more light is manifest, pure light is manifest. That is called spiritual progress.

At one point, Swamiji tells Thakur that [he declares] that avidya maya is also vidya maya and then Thakur responds that no, no, not at this stage but that will come at the final. Can you please explain that? I have been talking about this in Shwetashwatara Upanishad class very, very elaborately, isn't it? Yes, Maharaj. Avidya is coming from God, isn't it? Yeah. So, what comes out from God, will it ever be bad? No. That is why I took so much time to explain. These stupid people don't understand that. They invented this word maya and ruined the whole India, not only spiritually but politically also, lot of problems because of this misunderstanding. The point is avidya is a preparatory stage called karmakanda and vidya maya or jnanakanda is possible only when avidya prepares us to enter into that stage, isn't it? Yes, Maharaj. This is the relationship between avidya and vidya. They are not opposed, they are not enemies, but they are a lower step and a higher. But Maharaj, Swamiji was an advanced spiritual aspirant, and he was already on the path of the vidya maya only. So, why does Thakur tell Swamiji that it is too early to declare that avidya is also vidya? Because he had to go through the phase like any one of us; so that when we encounter Swamiji and ask his guidance, he can tell from his own experience that at one point of time I was also like this, and this is what my Guru told me, and this is what I am conveying to you. Was there any necessity for Swamiji to go through sadhana? He was a Rishi, one of the Saptarishis. Then whatever he has gone through is for what purpose? For our edification. In fact, Sri Ramakrishna had done so many years, more than 12 years of sadhana for his sake or for our sake? For our sake. We have to remember that. That's what Swami Saradananda explains beautifully - What is the difference between Thakur sadhana and our sadhana? He gave a beautiful analogy. Sri Ramakrishna himself tells later on this one. Our eyes are not only covered completely as though with150 screws, [I am adding that], 150 screws have been secured so that any amount of effort will not help. Whereas the Avatar Purusha, he is covering with his own hands his eyes. He knows I will pretend to be blind but anytime I want to see, I can see. That is why he is Janma Karma Chame Divyam Evam Yo Veti Tattvata. Very difficult to understand. People think I am also in trouble, I am also born, and I am also going through all these things. It is true, but voluntarily it is done. He is not born as a result of Karma Phala. But that is according to scriptures. According to me, He is born only because of Karma Phala. You understand? If you create a mess in your kitchen, who will have to clean it up? I will have to clean it up. He created this mess called Samsara. So, who would have to clean it up? Oh, like that. You understand now? Yes, Maharaj. I tell this Parama Rahasya only to my disciples. Sure, Maharaj. Thank you!