Mandukya Karika Lecture 141 on 14-February-2024

Full Transcript (Not Corrected)

We have been discussing Gaudapada's famous conclusion which is called Ajati Vada. This world is never born. Jeeva is never born. Then why do we experience this one? Because of a special power called Samrutti or ignorance. Then what is the description about the Atman? Really you are not born. Now here comes the best expression of Gaudapada's teachings. He says both these ideas. Which ideas? That the world exists. It is born. It is created. Srishti Sthithi Laya is also an act of the mind. And the opposite idea that there is no birth. There is no Jeeva. Atman is not born. Cannot be born. It is one. It is eternal. All that also is a work of the mind. Both are thoughts in the mind. And both thoughts they negate each other. And therefore all our thinking until now. I have become an Advaitin. I am practicing Advaita Vada. And I do not believe in the creation of this world is itself antithesis. What does it mean? If you are not born then why do you talk? With whom do you talk? And the scriptures, the Guru, Esesha, Sadhana, Siddhi, everything is also only products of the mind. And this is the grandest truth, he says. And there is a reason for accepting this view. What is the reason? Not to speak of Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Even when we go into deep sleep, we do not have any problem. We do not find problems. We do not try to think how these problems could be dissolved. And we apply them. And we say, yes, I am very intelligent. I know all the solutions to these problems. Such things do not exist at all in the deep sleep state. Not to speak of when one knows I am Brahman. Even this idea, when one knows Brahman, is also a product of the mind. It is terrible to think of it. I can remember a statement. Once Sriram Krishna said that even Shukadeva, Shiva, Shukadeva, he just drank one handful of water of this Satchidananda, became unconscious. And Shiva, he just took one sip, one look, and he went into ecstatic state. And Girish Babu was hearing this. And he closed his ears and said, Sir, please do not tell anything more. My head is reeling. Of course, from our discussion point of view, that my head, I have a head and it is reeling, is also part of the production of the thoughts only. From the standpoint of reality, the perceiver, the object and the instrument of perception, there are, that is one, which is Brahman. That means it doesn't really exist. So the causal relation, like the external objects, is in the mind of the perceiver. If the mind is unrelated to any object, then even the Guru-Shishya relation doesn't exist. So this is the objection raised by Shankaracharya himself in the name of the opponent for the welfare of the disciple who is not bright enough to think about this objection. But it is so nice that this objection comes. And that is what he is replying, Really speaking, our very denial is also a product of our mind that there is this samsara and I am in this samsara and when I am attached, identified with the body-mind, I am called a Jeeva. But the whole world, including me, is coming from Paramatma. He is the root cause. So He is the Karta. Ishwara is the creator, preserver and destroyer. Even these ideas are also completely figments of the brain, only imaginations of the brain. This is what he says. But why do you want to teach this? Why do you even raise this point for a Tantra Abhisamrutya? Because there are other schools, especially Vaiseshikas. What do they say? Even in every Dvaita school also, creation is real, sustenance is real, destruction is real, everything is real. So this is their 100% deeply rooted belief. And therefore Sadhana is real, Siddhi is real, Guru is real, scripture is real, Guru's interpretation of the scripture is real, and the disciple having faith, he will practice what the Guru said, and in the course of time, he will become free from all these illusions that all these bondage and liberation are of the mind. This is the essence actually. That which exists on the strength of the illusory experiences does not really speaking exist. That which again is said to exist on the strength of the views supported by other schools of thought, especially Vaiseshika school of philosophy, does not really exist. So, so long as we are in this state of ignorance, so long Srishti is real for us, we are not saying I am imagining Srishti is real, we are reacting. Every second of our life, there is a headache, immediately I rush to take an asan or a tablet for relieving myself. I am hungry, I read the fridge, so somebody insulted me, I take a stick and run to beat him up. So this is called our concept of reality. But look at the fun, as soon as this person enters into deep sleep state, there is no world, there is no jiva, nothing is known, everything is completely covered up. That is why many people compare it to you almost like a poor man's samadhi. This is what we discussed. So what was the point? That so long as we think I am real, my body is real, my mind is real, so long the world will be real, so long as I and world are real, so long bondage, limitation, dissatisfaction and many many desires, they are all true. So for that purpose, a teacher is necessary, so the disciple is real, the guru is also real, just like in a dream. As I mentioned in my previous talks, a disciple was being beaten and he prays to his guru, guru comes with a big stick and then he gives a bigger blow than the other people and the person wakes up. This waking up to reality, he doesn't even say thank you guru, you helped me. So even that guru also is mind born only, imagination only. So guru is imagination, I am also imagination, world is imagination, but upon waking up, until then everything is real. This is what he wants to continue. Atman is called unborn, is called aja, ja means to be born, aja means not to be born, from the standpoint of the illusory empirical experiences. So my birth is only from the standpoint of ignorance and my idea that the scripture is telling just the opposite, especially from the Advaitic point of view, because you see, even Bhagavatam starts only with this proposition, from whom the whole universe has come, in whom the universe continues, and unto whom the universe returns back. This is Bhagavatam's very first shloka. This is the essence, my salutations to that supreme reality called Narayana. Same thing, Varuna was teaching, that is, one Brahma Jnani is teaching to his disciple who was in fact none other than his own son, Bhrigu, in the Taittiriya, from whom all these beings are born and in whom and because of whom they live, keep on living and in the end, ultimately they all return to whom, I find out that truth and you will have knowledge of Brahman. So even that teaching is only when we accept the reality of creation, the continuation of this samsara and finally birth, sustenance and death. All these are three and all the three are real only from the ignorant point of view and then somebody comes and says, you are never born. Oh, you are saying something contrary to my experience. No, no. This is what the scripture is telling because the scripture contains both statements and the every teaching of the scripture which is interpreted by my Guru is also from the viewpoint of ignorance only. That is what Gaudapada wants to drive into our minds and this is absolutely true because when once I know the truth, I become the truth, the question of samsara, etc. will not arise because there is no mind. It is the product of the mind, thoughts of the mind, deviation of the mind. That is what we have to say. Samruti means ignorance. Ignorance means I am born, everything is born and I live for some time, I die and the same thing applies to every single object in this world but there is so long, for a long time I was under the impression and suddenly an enlightened teacher comes. Even this idea that somebody is enlightened, that is also from the viewpoint of ignorance only and that enlightened teacher tells us the Atman is never born and this idea my Guru told me he knows the truth he is telling the truth the soul, the self is never born and that is also from the viewpoint of ignorance only. The Atman is said to be unborn only from the viewpoint of ignorance. What is the truth? There is nothing called born self, unborn self these are all ideas of a ignorant mind and Paratantradi Nishpatya from the viewpoint of Paratantra means other types of thinking that means other schools of philosophy Samrutya Jayate Tu Saha Saha means that Atman as if it is born so not born as if it is born that is what most people think. What is the difference between Advaita and other schools of philosophy? Other schools of philosophy they are the world is real it is born and it is sustained and it is going to disappear after sometime as a universal fact and as a individual fact I am also going to get liberation and I also will be like this will become one day realize my Atman and then I will realize I am never born so both these ideas that what others think what Advaita Sadhaka thinks both are products of the mind thoughts of the mind only this tremendous truth the greatest hardest truth to assimilate is told to us Paratantradi Nishpatya because other schools of thought exist in order to refute to contradict them Advaita Vedanta proposes there is no Atman there is nothing is born even that there is an Atman is also a thought of the mind when we become really that reality we are imagining when I become that Atman how do I what do I experience and that is what scripture is forced to give us a description Ajah Nirvikalpaha Shashvataha Nityaha Sthanahu Achalaha etc. etc. So Shankaracharya while commenting this particular he says that this is there are so many Dwaitins schools of other philosophers other schools of philosophy declare that the creation is real and what is Gaudapada saying he doesn't deny this so long as you are in ignorance that is absolutely true world is real and you are real your body is real your mind is real etc. This is a marvelous fact we have to recognize the greatness of Advaita Vedanta and Gaudapada my dear opponent I am not saying that the world doesn't exist so long as we have ignorance the world cannot be denied worldly activity cannot be denied and there is a certain way even while dreaming beautiful example even while dreaming so you have a choice that if you smile at everybody and if you say thank you to everybody and if you behave how we are supposed to behave so that others are pleased they will not pick up quarrels with you you will have a sweet dream oh a man goes to a woman and say I love you marry me otherwise I shall kill you and she feels like killing him but if he says oh nicely I love you I give up my life for you and then there is a possibility that person also she may not marry but she will not also cherish terrible ideas of killing you etc. So whether it is waking state dream state there are certain rules of conduct and even in from ignorance point of view if we follow those rules and regulations then it is very helpful for all of us. This is what Shankaracharya Godfather says so unable to understand this truth many people criticize Advaita saying oh simply you go on repeating again and again this completely irrational statement the world doesn't exist. Now we understand so Advaita Vedanta declares the world is the world doesn't really exist only when the student is fit to hear that truth. Until that time as the Mundaka Upanishad declares every right that has been prescribed in the Karmakanda portion Sarvam Etat Satyam everything is real you do this Putra Kameshti and you get Putra children. You perform this Dhana Kameshti you get money and this Ripu Nashana Kameshti your enemies will be killed. If you properly perform all these things because this is the inevitable truth of Karma. Right Karma brings right results and evil Karma brings inevitably only evil result itself. But the same Mundaka Upanishad having declared says the Vedas do not stop here. You go a little bit further until you reach that borderland. Everything about Karmakanda is absolutely real. Only when you cross that borderland and you are eager to cross, you are eager to take to the higher path then says okay that solved its purpose now you don't need to do that for you I am teaching you are the Atman you are not the body mind and all the absolute existence, absolute knowledge and absolute bliss they all your nature. In fact you are trying to realize your own true nature which you are not really aware of it. So this is the essence. Atman is said to be unborn in the scriptures when when the student is ready for that truth and when is he ready? When he becomes Adhikari. That is he acquires Viveka, Viragya, Shamadham, Adishat, Sampathi and Mumukshutham. That is when he doesn't say I don't want the world when the Sadhaka says I do not need the world not that I don't want the world grapes are sour no no, there is a truth, dreams are also true, imaginations are also true but I realize now they are all imaginations. So I want something where I will go beyond all these things, birth, sustenance and death. Okay, now you are in a position to hear these statements of the Upanishads or Vedas. So Shankaracharya says to the possible objection what was the objection? That if you say the world is unreal, Guru is unreal, scripture is unreal, teachings of the scriptures and Guru are unreal then the disciple seeking is also unreal then the whole purpose of scriptures etc and the Guru everything becomes meaningless, for that he says if scriptural teaching etc were illusory then the birthlessness of the Atman as taught by the scripture is also equally illusory imagination so there are thorns take up one big thorn and remove all other thorns and then you throw away that thorn also so Aham Brahmasmi is the biggest thorn with the help of which Aham Jivaha that kind of Aham Dukhe Aham Samsare all these things have to be thorns have to be removed and if anybody understands this nobody will quarrel with Advaitin until that time Advaitin absolutely is one with the dualist that the world is real, birth is real but we see some people are very happy, find out why are these people happy only because they have done something according to the rules of this what is called world it is remember when we are talking about the world we should not bring the word illusory only when the student had advanced to that state to one particular state then only the teacher uses the word illusion until then he says you have to be good, you have to be Punya Karma and you have to what is called scrupulously follow Varna Ashrama Dharmas and that is called part of the Dharmastapana then Shankaracharya continues from the standpoint of the ultimate reality only Atman cannot even be said to be unborn so this description is only for a person he is still not awakened but half way he has progressed now he is fit to hear the truth that Atman is unborn and you are that unborn Atman but when he realizes he will not go on saying I was for a long time an ignorant person by the grace of god my god came in the form of my guru and he taught me the truth and oh my god what a relief it is I have become a realized soul Shankaracharya quotes you know all this is Brahma Sarvam Kalvidam Brahma this self is the Brahman I am Atma Brahma and absolute existence knowledge and bliss Sat Chit Ananda are all indicative definitions not complete statements of facts indicative means what you travel this way like sign board arrow sign will be there so there cannot be it is impossible to give a complete definition of the absolute infinite language in other words infinite cannot be described in language because language expression of thought powers of the mind they are severely limited that is why namo namo prabhu so whether it is language other instruments of knowledge have an application utility only in the relative plane and as such when we use them in the discussion of the absolute the real nature of the Atman must necessarily remain undetermined same idea is continued once we understood so far as we have discussed many of the shlokas are rephrasing the same truth what is the meaning man as mere persistent belief in the reality of the unreal means I am a human being and I am studying this Advaita Vedanta and by the grace of God and scripture I understood that until now I am running after worldly objects now the scripture tells me not to run after slowly to control my mind I believe in it so long as a thorn is real its removal is also real second thorn bigger thorn an instrument very interesting you know supposing a bullet is lodged deep inside somebody's body in a war let us say and then the person is taken to the hospital and the surgeon what does he do he has an instrument so there is a way to find out where exactly is the bullet embedded so with the help of x-rays he will mark he will cut open that part of the body and there is a plier he takes that plier and extracts that bullet and then puts some antiseptic powder etc and shows the whole flesh and after few days the person will become free and what is this person has done there was a smaller thorn in this person's body only we call it bullet and surgeon takes a bigger thorn which is called surgical instrument and with that he removes what does he do does he put that bigger thorn a surgical instrument in the body of the patient absolutely no both are taken away the person is said there is no bullet and surgical instrument is not necessary to go this is precisely what the Gaudapada in this Mandukya Karika wants to tell us so he is telling so long as any one of us believe that this samsara is real we are believing samsara is real we are really idiots why because why is this word belief is used instead of the word real so long as man knows this world to be real because a definition of reality is given what is it whatever is truth it must be not under the thumb of three periods of time so trikala atitam satyam abaditam trikala abaditam satyam abaditam is a word that which doesn't exist in the past present and future that alone is defined now what is our experience we are experiencing the whole world I am born okay or did you remain exactly the same baby no day by day you are growing become adolescent become young become middle aged old and bend and then shaky and then ultimately you one day the body will fall off is this not changing every millisecond everything in this world is changing including my body and mind also so whatever is changing the word change is another name for kala time whatever is changing cannot be true so long as we really believe that this world is real so abhi abhuta abhinivesha asti so abhuta means that which is never born never happened to be but it is bhuta it is not abhuta it is not unborn it is born so long as abhinivesha intense belief is there so that this world has to be dealt with reality means there is this world and there is a creator of the world both there is a truth where there is untruth there is a truth have you noticed it if there is a untruth there must be a truth because if you don't know what is truth you can't say what is untruth if you don't know what is white you can't say what is its color if you don't know what is light you can't talk about darkness if you don't know what is birth you can't talk about death if you don't know what is to be male we will not know what is female this is the very nature of the mind but in fact tatra that is the fact is dvayam na vidyate neither the samsara is born nor it comes to an end and from the view point of reality there is a atman which is unborn both these ideas about the samsara about the atman both are unreal dvayam tatra na vidyate dvaya bhavam sa buddhva eva through sadhana removes this ignorance that is called dvaya bhavam that is the birth of the birth existence of the world and the existence of the atman both go together like male and female and heat and cold dvaya this is called dvandva or dvaya dvandva bhavam then from the view point of the reality of samsara atman is the real that is what advaitins claim so this talk about atman is real only so long as talk about samsara exists but when a person becomes absent that means when does a person get rid of both when there is no mind mind is the instrument for thinking both existence and non existence and this and that etc when a person goes beyond the concept of the mind that means when a person really gets rid of the mind that is called moksha sa buddhva eva having reached that state of realization nirmittaha na jayate na jayate there is going to be no birth at all why because for the idea of the birth nimittaha na asti that is mind is not there mind is the cause of samsara mind is the cause of liberation when there is no mind both bondage and liberation those very ideas disappear totally that is the essence of what godfather wants to convey to us in this 75th abhota abhinivesaha asti so long as there is this tremendous faith that this samsara abhota means that which is never born is born so long as that faith is there which is this world is real and I am part of the world if the world is real I am also real vayam tatra vidyate so from that view point of view the world is real atman is also real but what is the truth tatra when a person has realization of the truth vayam na vidyate both these fall either both of them persist or both of them disappear appearance of both disappearance of both both are the works of the mind so when a person reaches that nirnimitta when there is no mind there is no creator of samsara there is no creator of bondage there is no creator of dukkha that is what he wants to tell but then again coming back what is our condition so we are all born is a persistent belief and it is not merely born being born is not a problem but being born in under certain particular conditions that is the problem and that is said here and we all accept it and especially me go on talking about karma siddhanta so here is a rich man why is a rich man because he did something in his previous birth so I am accepting world is real I have many births previously also I had a birth but I was a good person and I believed in the scriptures I performed good actions and as a result I accumulated lot of punya and as a result of punya in this birth I got all the goodies of the world best goodies of the world so this is what Godapada wants to say that so long as we think we are born what could be the cause of the born birth that is karma siddhanta and what type of birth uttama uttama madhyama all people can be classified as the best people the mediocre people and the worst people three classes but when the mind doesn't find any cause superior inferior or meddling it becomes free from birth how can there be an effect what a cause so what does this 76th karika wants to tell so long as we believe in the world we see varieties in the world varieties are caused because of what is called purva janma karma phala and three types of effects are there what is called uttama madhyama and adhama if somebody has read marvelous life in this he will be very rich very healthy very powerful not only that he will have a body which can really enjoy things and if somebody has done only something not as good as the first man this is called madhyama that is to say middling and he will get his jati, his ayu his bhoga will be according to his karma phala and there are adhamas adhama usually is taken as inferior creatures all the jarayuja, andaja udbija etc how many insects birds, animals we know how many animals are killed every single day so this is all the reason karma siddha and karma siddhanta is real only if the samsara is real the samsara itself is not real and when does samsara become unreal when the mind doesn't function samsara is unreal tell me a healthy man and an unhealthy person, a rich man and a very poor person and a very happy person and an unhappy person when these different types of people go to lie down to sleep and are in deep sleep tell me what is the difference is there a birth because birth means all these differentiations will come this person is beautiful and that person is very black, not beautiful, groovy, ugly etc etc when the mind is not functioning these problems will also disappear this is what Gowda Pada wants to say the emphasis is keep always in mind mind the concept of the mind yada when this sadhaka having advanced heton nallabhate that is I did great punya I did somewhat punya I did very little punya so I was born like this these are all creations of the mind when the mind itself is not there he doesn't find the reasons why am I unhappy because I have done lot of bad karma why am I so happy because I have done lot of punya but when we are in deep sleep such thoughts do not arise so such a sadhaka even while completely awake he thinks these are all the products of the mind, thoughts of the mind and mind is the cause both for the bondage and liberation so when this person doesn't find mind itself that mind is the cause for creating all this faith in karma phala and non-belief in god non-belief in previous births, future births everything is the play of the mind when the mind itself is not there he cannot find any reasons and when tada na jayate chittam that is when the mind is completely absent hetva bhave phalam kutaha when there is no mind who is going to think about what we call previous births I did this I did not do that and when there is no cause is ever found cause means hetu means the cause of the seeking causes which is called mind when the mind itself is not there tada na jayate chittam phalam kutaha that is the question of discriminating oh that person is very very happy that other person is somewhat happy other person is completely unhappy and one is so rich another is ok another is absolute rich very miserable person all these ideas will disappear when once the mind is transcendent means what it doesn't even exist so this particular belief is according to Mimamsakas Mimamsakas are the worshippers of or believers in karma kanda you do this karma you get this result good karma good result bad karma bad result very good karma very good result very bad karma very bad result middling karma middling result so good or bad it is to refute the human mind which is nothing but a bundle of impressions gathered during an individual's pilgrimage in life is controlled by his superior inferior or middle types of actions marvelous truth if I am a poor man I will be struggling one way I am a but slightly better person my struggle will be in a different way when I am very happy when I am very rich when I am very powerful my struggle will be totally different struggles but the sage who developed a detachment becomes free from his attachments to his body mind and intellect and what happens there is I am not the body I am not the mind I am not the buddhi I am not the ahankara then he rediscovers his identity with his true nature which is called atma he also understands the what is called the whole thing is creation of the mind that is remember during sadhana period only all these what we are discussing apply not otherwise same idea is continued in karika 77 same idea is continued the non evolution here it means non birth that is ajati that is the world doesn't exist therefore I also I was never born because the world is never born if I think I am born simultaneously the world is also born nanatva many foldness they come together go together so I am one of the many foldness so when there is no nimitta nimitta means mind animittasya chittasya ya anutpathy so when we succeed what patanjali calls chittavruti nirodha that is called here animittasya chittasya then what happens anutpathy utpathy means creation anutpathy means non creation non creation means I realize I am purusha I am brahman I am atman and what is the nature of that atman sama it advaya advaya means non dual sama and it becomes permanent remember even this sama and advaya are also descriptions because their thoughts in the mind are kaudapada they would be the thoughts in every sadhaka's mind now I have become one with atman I have nothing to do with this world and therefore I will forever abide in this state all these descriptions and I am one without a second all these are only again products of the mind that is why that marvelous statement yato vacho nivartante aprapya manasa saha so ajatasya eva sarvasya chitta drushyam itadyatha when a person knows I am the atman so to speak from the human description point of view he discovers something marvelous wonderful what is that discovery not only I am the atman but sarvasya ajatasya eva everything is unborn only that means the whole world that means what until now I am considering as the world is none other than me there is only one brahman and that brahman is non dual and that will persist and what about all this world etc chitta drushyam hi tadyataha because it's all creation of the mind chitta drushyam means what imaginations of the mind tadyataha sarvasya ajati the non evolution of the state of knowledge of the mind which is unborn and free from causal relation is absolute and constant what does it mean once a person reaches that state of mind then it will not fall down it will realize I am pure and I am absolutely eternal not only I am pure and eternal I am non dual everything what we call the world is everything everything else is also equally unborn so what is true of the mind is true of everything else as well because chitta drushyam all duality is merely an objectification of the mind only and nothing else and that is what is continued again what do we get through this realization that I go beyond mind that is called realization then in human words I know that I am brahman there is a human mind description in the mind of human being what will be the result that is said in this 78th karika having realized the absence of causality as the ultimate truth and also not finding any other cause for birth such as attains to that state of liberation which is free from grief desire and fear and this is beautifully expressed in the any person knows I am the atman then all the knots of the heart are cut all the karmas will become completely karma follow everything because as soon as a person wakes up all that he was experiencing good or evil everything disappears not only the bad but good also disappears and all if there are any doubts because I am experiencing directly what I am if any lingering doubt is there that also is totally destroyed so this is the highest result a person will get what is the result there is no cause for this creation and not finding any other real cause for rebirth etc then he becomes what that means he becomes Brahman divide off any sorrow and when there is no desire and when is there no desire when there is absolutely no feeling I lack something I am I am I am infinite there is nothing else other than me then we realize there is no object to desire and there is no dissatisfaction abhayam padam ashnute a person attains to that state which is said abhayam fearlessness padam ashnute having thus realized absence of causality and the ultimate truth also not finding any other cause for birth one attains to that state of liberation which is free from grief desire and fear remember even this description is from the view point of what is called mind only beautiful verse we will discuss about it in our next class om jananim sharadam devim ramakrishnam jagat gurum padapadme tayo sritva pranamami mohur moho ho may Ramakrishna holy mother and swami vekaranda bless us all with bhakti Ramakrishna