Mandukya Karika Lecture 123 on 04-October-2023

Full Transcript (Not Corrected)

We have come to the last chapter. LAATHA SHANTI PRAKARANAM We have discussed up to the 13th karika of this 4th chapter. This 4th chapter has got 100 karikas or shlokas. Mainly, in this last chapter, Gaudapada is trying to refute all the other schools of philosophy which accept creation in this world. We have seen in our last class, in 5 karikas, how Gaudapada had refuted Satkaryavada, Asatkaryavada. Now we come to this Mimamsavada. You know, there are so many schools of philosophy. And one of them is Nyaya, Vaiseshika. And then we have come to Sankhya and Yoga. And their views have been thoroughly refuted by Gaudapada. That is Advaita Vedanta. By what methodology? Ajati Vada. Creation was not there at all. Therefore, to seek the cause of creation itself is a useless type of labour. Now comes Purvamimamsa. So the other two schools of philosophy, it may not be very interesting, not relevant for us. But this Purvamimamsa school of philosophy is extraordinarily influential. And whenever I am talking, I am talking about Purvamimamsa system. What is this Purvamimamsa system? That is based upon the first part of the Vedas. I told you many times, Vedas are divided into two parts. Karma Kanda and Jnana Kanda. Which I prefer to call, the first part is called Dharma Kanda. And the second part is called Brahma Kanda or Bhagavata Kanda. There is special reason why I prefer this. Because the Jnana Kanda means Jnanam. Jnanam and Jnanamargam, both are equated very often mistakenly. These are two separate issues. Jnanam means Brahma. Brahma means Bhagavan. God realization. That is the common goal of all. Whether we are following Bhakti Yoga, Karma Yoga, Raja Yoga or Jnana Yoga. But the paths are different. This was the main teaching of Sri Ramakrishna and Swami Vivekananda. That is, there are infinite paths to the infinite God. Infinite ways of reaching God. All those paths of course have been classified into, included in these four paths. The path of emotion. The path of activity. The path of mind control or rationality. And the path of knowledge, intellect. Many people following the path of knowledge do not accept that. But Advaita Vedanta has gained supremacy. In what way? Theoretically. But Dvaita Vedanta is in practice. If we question ourselves, is Advaita accepted by all people? No. Is it accepted by most of the people? No. It is only intellectual aid. But in practice we follow Dvaita Marga. Why do we follow Dvaita Marga? Because we see duality everywhere. I am different, you are different. So three types of differences we have seen. Vijatiya Bheda, Sajatiya Bheda and Swagata Bheda. We see this Swagata Bheda all the time in our life. So my body is changing. My mind is changing. My body has many parts. In fact the word body is not a limb. But the name for the totality of all the parts of the body. Similarly mind is the combination of Manaha, Chitta, Uddi and Ahankara. And it is changing all the time. So we are in the world of duality. In this context Mimamsaka system of Dharma Kanda which popularly goes by the name Karma Kanda is an extremely important one. Until we attain almost we are knocking at the door of Bhagawan. Whether it is Vaikuntha, Kailasa or Devi Loka we are forced to live in the world of Karma Kanda only which I call Dharma Kanda. Now the question of Srishti. This is the main point which Advaita Vedanta especially Gaudapada he takes it to the extreme. There is no creation at all. Now we have to be very intelligent to understand is Gaudapada a madcap that he doesn't understand that he is living. To whom is he writing? He has written this Mandukya Karikas and also commentary on the Mandukya Upanishad. Is he writing in Samadhi state sitting, becoming, having become one with Brahma? No. He has a body, he has a mind and he feels like writing and he means it is meant for some people. In which world is he living? In Srishti. In the created world. Veda is there. The moment we enter into body-mind then this differentiation will come. Then why is he talking again and again? So he is talking and this is exactly Shri Ram Krishna also talks about. That is why I mentioned earlier the paths are many unlike some people who emphasize there is only one Gnana Marga. Among those who follow Gnana Marga there are two types of broadly two types of people are there. One type of people extremely small number of people they insist Gnana Marga is the only way for Mukti, Moksha, liberation. But most of the people agree without Bhagawan's grace this Gnana will not come. So that is very important for us to understand. So even Gaudapada he also accepts that but he wants to talk about the final goal. So we should never mistake while studying Gaudapada he is talking at the beginning also of only the final step. No. When we are studying in the nursery, elementary, middle, high school, college he will be only talking about Karmakandas, Srishti is real etc. So this Advaita Vedanta is given a fancy name for this process. What is that fancy name? Adhyaropa and Apavada. Until we reach certain state of fitness Adhikari we have to accept Adhyaropa that is creation is real everything in this world is real body is real, mind is real. But once we reach that state we should slowly give this up and enter into Brahmavada. That is the point we have to know. Gaudapada was not so unintelligent to say that for everybody this Ajati Vada non-creation theory will be appealing. Now with this small background so that misunderstanding should not come either about Gaudapada or about Ajati Vada. Gaudapada wants to establish finally the last word in spirituality is only Advaita becoming or knowing that we are none other than Brahma. That's what Sriram Krishna also accepts fully. He says Advaita is the last word. But we are living even all of us are devotees for us this Dharma Kanda is very important. Srishti is very important. And for that purpose we have to understand what is Samsara and what is this Karma Siddhanta. These are very closely related. Samsara can never be understood. This creation can never be understood. This world can never be understood without this Karma Siddhanta. And Karma Siddhanta will not stand even for a millisecond without this Srishti. This is what Gaudapada wants to clarify from Karika 14 to Karika 23rd 10 Karikas. So let us briefly discuss today's class I will devote only to this. In my last class I have quickly read out chanted those 14th to 23rd. I am not going to repeat them. So let me just give a very short summary before we go into this. What is the problem with creation? Do we have any problem with creation? Can we have a problem with creation if creation is perfect? What does that mean? Creation and perfection are diametrically opposed like light and darkness. What is the creation? Time, space and causation. That means limitedness. So everything in this world is limited. My body is limited, my mind is limited and my happiness is limited and also so also my unhappiness is also limited. Supposing, just supposing that I am absolutely in happy state which can never be, which should not be. I will tell you also, just now. If the creation is very happy there are no enemies, always happy. Perfect weather, perfect health, perfect both body and mind and then there is no death. Eternally we will be living. If this be true, nobody can have any objection. So people will not go to wars. They will not cheat each other because a happy person can never do anything wrong. This is a great truth. Please try to remember it. A happy person can never do anything unhappy because anything wrong is that which creates unhappiness and when a person is happy he will never be able to do it. It is impossible for him to do it. So let us look at our, at this creation and how are we looking at the creation because we can never experience creation excepting through this body-mind complex and what is the first thing we notice? Everything is limited. Everything is imperfect and everything seems to be having better and better aspects which I do not have or we do not have at this moment and birth is a fact. Growth is a fact and death is a fact. Everything is transitory. Friends become enemies. Enemies become friends. Loved ones become hateful ones. Hateful people become loving ones but nothing is steady. Nothing remains unchanged. All the time it is changing and that is most unsettling thing. It creates tremendous longing. Take the example of a baby. It sees mother very happy. Doesn't see mother not happy and if this separation between baby and mother goes for a long time then the baby, both the mother and the baby, they experience intolerable anguish that is the problem. There is a problem with this Srishti, theory of creation. There are of course people who do not think about it and they are ready to accept it provided it is not extreme. Nobody will accept Srishti if the suffering is too much or more than what could be tolerated and a point will come. Nobody wants death. Nobody wants unhappiness. Nobody wants suffering. Nobody wants pain. In fact, we do everything in our power to get rid of uncertainty, ignorance and unhappiness. Asat, achit and dukkha. It is instinctive to get rid of these three but just recollect we never even make slightest effort to get rid of sat, chit and ananda. When we are secure, happy and we know and we are happy it is the most natural state. So there is a problem. What is the problem? Everything is uncertain. Everything is different. Everybody is different and every different thing, every different person is changing all the time. That is what Sri Ramakrishna calls the third commandment. Always practice discrimination. Everything is temporary. God alone is permanent. So there is a big problem with this creation. Now in this background let us come to the karma siddhanta. What is the relationship between srishti and karma siddhanta? So I am born like this. Each one of us are born like this to these parents and nobody is absolutely happy for some time, temporarily maybe, not forever because even if everything is ok there is a longing for something more, for something better, for something higher all the time but birth is beset with problem, growth is beset with problems, middle aged, old age, disease, enemies, death, everything is beset with problems. This is exactly what Bhagavan Buddha was trying. And what is the root cause he found out? Krishna first. That is insatiable thirst. For something better. Actually what we want is only two things. I want to be eternal. I want to be infinite. This is I want to transcend time, space and causation because time and space are differing because of cause. That is called karma siddhanta. Now very briefly let us talk about this karma siddhanta. What is it? That why am I like this? Because of my parva janma karma. So if I did not have a body before I could not have done karma. And if I did not have karma I would not have done what I have done in my past life. Why does this question come? As I mentioned if I am extremely happy all the time which is impossible. Why is it impossible? Because happiness is a feeling. And if you are having same feeling then you lose that feeling because feeling requires distinctness. You are healthy then you know what is unhealthy. You are unhealthy then you know what is healthy. That is why the funny definition of what is health. Health means forgetfulness. And do you remember your tooth? Only when it is aching. Until that time did you ever think about your tooth? Absolutely no. If God assures each one of us that our teeth will be perfect whatever we do then brushing the teeth will not arise at all. All the time. So everything has to be brushed. The body has to be brushed. Hands have to be brushed. Legs have to be brushed. Of course the most important thing to brush is our brain. So for each one of us it is periodically wave like happiness followed by unhappiness followed by happiness health followed by unhappiness followed by happiness unhealthiness etc. Everything goes in a wave like motion. But do we accept it? No. We want it to be uniform. In this world uniformity means death. It is the multiplicity that is called life. Swami Vivekananda makes this statement so beautifully and explains it especially in his Gnana Yoga. So those who are interested please read Swami Vivekananda's lectures on Gnana Yoga. Most marvelous without that background understanding Upanishads will be extremely difficult. Coming back to our subject we see this world in front of us and what is our normal reaction? You take any object. You see a pen and that is an object. An object is called an effect and we cannot conceive that an effect called pen suddenly is there for all the eternity. It was not there. And it will not be there. So whatever is temporarily experienceable is called effect. But we don't see the cause. So why pot? Pot is the very famous example that is why Shankaracharya has written in his Brihadaranyaka Upanishad especially in the beginning of the Brihadaranyaka it is called Ghatabhashyam. Why is it called Ghatabhashyam? Ghata means pot. Why is it called Potbhashyam? Because this word pot that I mean Shankaracharya's Bhashyam occurs umpteen number of times. That is why his followers named it Ghatabhashyam. And in our last class Satkaryavada, Satkaryavada So this what we are discussing now we must keep those things Satkarya, Rasatkarya in mind. With that we have to discuss what is Mimamsaka's view. So everything in this world who created? Can God create? No he cannot create. God means here we are talking about Advaita Vedanta. So God means Brahman. Brahman is infinite. Brahman is one. Brahman is changeless. Let us take Brahman is one. If we see a pot and there are at least minimum two causes are necessary. The intelligent cause who is called the pot maker and the material cause which is called the clay. Without clay and without this potter is impossible for the clay to make itself into a pot. Now this is what we see with regard to every single object in this world. Therefore we also have that same, apply the same rule to this entire universe. Since we are experiencing it it is called an object. Only instead of saying it is a house, it is a tree, it is a person telling it is the world. So Brahman should have, must have created because this Jagat is a Karyam and this Karyam must have been created by Bhagawan. It is impossible for Bhagawan to create. This is the first point we have to understand in today's class. Impossible for Bhagawan. For several reasons. What is the first reason? So to create creator must be separate and the material should be separate. So Brahman as the creator and as the raw material both one, two in one is an impossible according to the definition given in the Upanishads as well as often discussed by our commentators or learned pundits etc. According to Advaita Vedanta it is impossible for Brahman to split himself into. That is the first point. Second, by accepting somehow it is possible like milk becoming curds. If Brahman changes into this world the changeless Brahman changes into the changeful world. That is an illogical statement like saying the horns of a hare or the son of a barren woman or the cooling waters in the mirage etc. It is impossible. It is impossible. It is impossible for Brahman to create. But what is our experience that we see the entire world and it is the only reality. Whenever you have the habit of repeating Brahma Sathyam Jagan Mithya don't do that. In fact what you should do is Brahma Mithya Jagat Sathyam because your action and reaction always follow your conviction this world alone is real. Whether it be in the dream state or in the waking state. Of course in the deep sleep state there is no world, there is no action there is no reaction. That is why it gives so much of peace. So Brahman cannot, could not have created the world is the first point we have to understand. The next point is very important point. What is that? Just now I mentioned. If per chance, by any chance Brahman can create. Brahman cannot remain like milk cannot remain as milk and at the same time become curds. Brahman cannot remain as Brahman and by definition Brahman is what? Nitya. Nitya means changeless. Ananta means infinite. Anadi means beginningless. So a changeless something. Eternally changeless something. We cannot even posit as changing something. This is the second point. What is the third point? It is, we discussed it already but I am reminding ourselves. What is it? Supposing Brahman has become this world then you after many many many births you become wise, you become an Adhikari. Then you start practicing spiritual disciplines and you get a Sadguru and you progress in life spiritual life and finally you come to know you are Brahman. You are not the body mind. Supposing you reach that state and this is what you call Moksha and when you reach that Moksha, what happens? Once there was a creation what is the guarantee that you will not be again falling into this first what is called inorganic, then organic then amoeba, then birds then trees, then animals then lower human beings and like that. The same rigmarole. What is the guarantee? Because once something happens, it can happen many times. These are the some of the problems. Therefore, Brahman cannot be the creator. Now, we see the world, we think it is real according to Dvaita Vedanta, this is not real. But according to all other schools, Dvaita Vedanta this world is very real. But let us keep the philosophical schools aside. What do you feel? What do I feel? If I feel this world is unreal, I would not be talking to you, taking the glasses. I feel that I must spend my time and you must also, I want you also to spend your time with me or otherwise I will be very unhappy. So to make me happy, you have to attend the classes. So the world is very very real. Now, what is the problem with this view? The view is, I already mentioned that happiness is changing into unhappiness. Manifestation is changing into unmanifestation and everything is changing in this world and there is no certainty. That means there is no security. That feeling of non-security is the greatest dukkha anybody can have. So, we want to think that why did God create this world? According to Advaita, God never created. Then why are we seeing it? According to Advaita, it is seeming, it is appearance only, it is mere appearance like mistaking a rope for a snake. But I am not going into it. I am coming. What Gaudapada and also Shankara, many other people do exactly the same thing. Maybe not in such harsher words but in milder words. What is it? This is where Karma Siddhanta comes. In this world, what is Karma Siddhanta? All of us have done karma. All human beings, non-human beings, they are evolving. That is part of the Karma Siddhanta. They have not done any karma. Purva Janma karma. Purva Janma is there. Karma phala is not there. These are the very important points. All non-human beings, that means even human beings who are not grown up, who do not know to feel, I am doing, that is ahamkara bhava, who are mad, who are sleeping, who are suffering from certain diseases, they cannot be held responsible. So, Karma Siddhanta works only. What is Karma Siddhanta? That Karma phala, accepting Karma phala, the result of actions that we have done, both in the past lives, especially in the last life and in this life also. So, this is what Karma Siddhanta means, what we are. And then, another important factor is, we are not bothered about what anybody else thinks. I am only bothered what is my conviction. What is my conviction? I wish a lot for myself. I am not able to get. It makes me very unhappy. So, why did God create? If you study Advaita, the answer is God did not create. What is the second option then? Did the world create by itself? Impossible, because something cannot create itself. It is impossible. It is illogical. Then what is the third? That I must have, each one of us must have created ourselves. Let us confine ourselves only to one individual. Let us say, this is me. I have this problem. I am not happy. I want to be happy. Why am I unhappy? Because of what I have done in the past. So, what comes? I have done something and what did I do? Karma. What type of Karma? Papa Karma, because unhappiness, the result of Papa Karma. Happiness is the result of Punya Karma. So, I have got this. I have done this. What is called Papa Karma. How was I able to do Punyam or Papa Karma? Definitely, I have done some Punya Karma. Otherwise, I would have been listening like you are listening to my class. So, how did I do? Simply, one cannot do anything without an instrument. So, I had an instrument. What was that instrument? My body-mind complex in the one. Now, there is a big problem with it. So, I had a body and I had a mind and I had some knowledge and I thought I was very clever and I thought I could escape Karmapala. I did something good. I did something also wrong and as a result, as a mixture of that, I have been born in this birth, in this life, in this way. What is the problem with this? The problem is that I have created everything. It has tremendous implication. If somebody is giving me trouble, it is because of what I did. If somebody is loving me, helping me, adoring me, looking after me, that is also the result of my Punya Karma. So, I have done both Punyam and Papam. How did I do it? Through the body. Now, just think for a second. Pause and think. How did that body come? Did it fall down from the sky? Was it eternally there? That is the problem. So, how did that last birth come about? Because of previous births, Karmapala and that last series, the third birth which created last birth, which created this birth, that third Janma through which I have done Karma, which resulted in my last birth. How did I get that? Because of its birth. So, where does it begin? It is called Anadi. So, this which is first, seed or tree, egg or chicken. Nobody can give a logical answer for that. So, this is where Purva Mimamsaka says that because of Purva Janma Punya or Papa Karma, we are like this in this world. So, what is the Tatparya Essence summary? Because of body was created, particular body with some good things, some not so positive things, because of Purva Janma Karma and then what made me do that Purva Janma Karma? Body. So, which is first? Body or Karma? This is what Gaudapada wants to attack from the 14th to 23rd. This is Mimamsaka's view. So, what is the solution for this problem? Says, whatever has happened, let us not think about it too deeply, but our scriptures are telling that do this, don't do this. Scripture itself means what? That is Vidhi and Nishedha. Do this and don't do. If we follow these scriptures, what happens? The Karma Phala will go away and if we do Nitya Karma, Naividya Karma, etc., then whatever we have accumulated will go. Further accumulation will not be there and that Karma Phala will get completely nullified, exhausted, over and then there would be no further birth. That is the idea of Moksha according to Mimamsaka's. And this is the view that in this 14th to 23rd and Gaudapada brings in six objections that if we accept, but accept what? Accept that Srishti is real, this world is real and my body-mind is real, your body-mind is real. Remember, Karma Phala cannot be accepted, accepting through some other things, either living or non-living. If you are living in a very cold place, you have done some Papakarma. If you are living in a very hot place, that is also the result of Papakarma only. But if you are living in what is called cities like Athens, which is like Bangalore, which is air-conditioned places, then you have done a great amount of Punya in that respect, remember. So, accepting creation as a reality has got, according to Mimamsakas, what is it? This Janma, that is body and Karma Phala. Sharira and Karma Phala. This is what he is talking about. Hetu means Karma, what is called cause of the body and Phala. Instead of using Karma and Sharira, he has used peculiar Buddhist words Hetu and Phala. Hetu and Phala. Hetu means Karma, just to substitute. Problems will be much simpler. And Phala means body. It is a result of body. Good body, bad body, blind body, well-saying body and extraordinarily great scientist, musician or the greatest evil person, etc. etc. So, this is the problem. Before I go further, I also want to tell something. If Ishwara or Brahman as Ishwara, because creation can come only through Ishwara or through Saguna Brahma, is accepted, then problem is we see so much of differentiation. Suffering person, enjoying person, good person, evil person, rich person, poor person. So, can we accept that Ishwara not Brahman but Ishwara created this world? If we accept that view, the problem is Ishwara must be very partial. Some people he is giving good Karma. Some people he is giving bad body, bad circumstances. So, he has got very bad mind. He has got partiality and he is always he loves somebody, he hates somebody. If Ishwara loves and hates, he is no better than the worst human being in this world. So, then what is the answer? Our own Karmaphala. Ultimately, Janma or body gives Karma. Karma gives birth to body. This is the crux of the matter. So, what are the six things that Gaudapada wants to understand it? The first four are quite simple. What is the first theory? Let us accept, Karma is the cause, the real cause of this body which is representative of the entire creation. Karma first. What is the problem? Okay, let us now first enumerate then go. What is the second? No, no, no. Karma is not the cause, body is the cause. Because without the body, how can you do Karma? This is second. Third, no, no, not Karma alone, not body alone, both body and Karma. Karma and Shariram, both they originate simultaneously and they are cause for all this world, Srishti, our own Srishti. Now, then, what is the which is the cause and which is the effect? Because in this world, whatever we see, we see cause and effect. So, if Karma is the cause, Shariram is the effect or Shariram is the effect is the cause and Karma is the effect. This is the fourth problem. But no, even that, what is the fifth idea? No, don't ask like that which is first, which is second. Karma and Shariram are part of a long series that is Anadi. That is we don't know, somehow a body has come and then somehow because of some Karma and somehow that Karma has come because of a body is called Anadi, beginningless. That means we can never trace. Suppose it is a series, that is the fifth problem. Then, this Karma, Shariram series both are Anadi. Both are beginningless because nobody can find out. These are the six problems. Now, one by one we will take out. Very easy actually. Supposing we say Karma is the original cause of this creation, which means my body mind, your body mind, etc. It is not acceptable because our particular body differing from every other body and I undergo so many problems can come only because of Punyam or Papam, whatever I have done, depending upon Dharma, Dharma, Karma in the first life. So, it cannot be accepted. What cannot be accepted? Karma is the original cause cannot be accepted. Then, what is the second option? Now, there is a body. So, it has done Karma. So, body is the cause, Karma is the effect. That also cannot be accepted. Why? Because how did that particular body everybody doesn't behave exactly in the same way. So, how can that particular body can create that particular Karma? Because there must be some old habits must be there and who gave that habits? Samskaras, previous Karma phala. Like that, this is the second option. What is it? That body is the Moolakarana, original cause of Karma. That also cannot be accepted. What is the third option? No, no. Let us not take up one by one. The third option is let both Karma and Sharira that originated simultaneously. It is not valid because Sharira cannot originate without Karma. Karma cannot be done without Sharira and both of them originate simultaneously. It is not acceptable because you cannot explain the cause-effect relationship. They cannot have cause-effect. We are talking about Karyakarana Sambandha. What is the fourth option? That Karma comes from Shariram and Shariram comes from the Karma. But when did it start? Because mutually both cannot be cause and effect. Godfather gives a beautiful answer like Shankaracharya that Rama is the effect, Dasaratha is the father, Rama is the son and who is the cause of Dasaratha? Rama. So the son is the cause of the father and father is the cause of the son. Do you think that is correct? Cause cannot be without its previous effect and that effect cannot be without the previous cause. So this fourth option that both are mutually, both cause as well as effect that can never be accepted. Now what is the fifth formulation? The body has come out of Karma and Karma because of its previous body and that previous body because of previous Karma. So what happens? Karma produces body, body produces Karma, Karma produces body, body produces, what is the point? That five janmas back I had a body that created Karma and the fourth janma is the result of that Karma done in the fifth janma, last fifth janma and the fourth janma creates the third janma, third janma creates the second janma, second janma created this present janma. That means you can never find out which is earlier and which is later. So this is called fallacy of mutual at the same time cause and effect relationship and this can never be logically accepted. So this formulation Kodupada says cannot be accepted because in this particular case we end up in infinite regress. Where from did you come? From my father. Where from father has come? From his father. Where from his father has come? From his father. So is my I am the effect, my father is the cause and my father is the effect and his father is the cause. Where do we end up? This is called infinite regress and infinite regress is not going to solve the problem because we can find never find out mula karana original cause and unless we find the original cause we cannot obtain moksha. That is the whole point. Then what is the sixth formulation? No, no we can never find out. It is a series. This is called series and then this what is this series? It is called, the series is called as that when we cannot get to the original cause it is a beginning-less series. This beginning-less series, karma is the karana but karma is the effect of previous one. So this series goes on. We call it series. Then we cannot accept karma as the cause, karana as the cause. The word series is a nonsensical concept because only when we accept cause and effect a series will be possible. Then supposing there is a cricket match. A series of cricket matches are there. So, first match some result will come. Second match, some other result will come. So gradual reduction of many, elimination of many people etc. etc. This is called a series of cricket matches. We are all familiar with that and that series is possible only because that there will be two types of people and the opponents playing against each other. Here the players are karma and sharira and without karma and sharira then you cannot understand what is the mula karana. The very concept of series ongoing series is nonsense. We know that any series has a beginning but according to the Mimamsaka view, it is impossible to get. Then there is a last fallacy with that Gaudapada squashes, eliminates all these Mimamsaka's views. What is it? Sir, you are talking about creation of this world. Mimamsaka's are talking all the points we are talking are because of the accepting the fact there is a creation, there is a world, there is karma and there is my body, your body and there is an experience of papa and punya in the form of suffering and enjoyment as if this world is very real. So what is Gaudapada's Sir, if this creation is real getting moksha will never be possible. This is called Aneer Moksha Prasangha. With this I will end. I will just explain and if necessary I will take in the future classes also if necessary. What is it? If this world is real karma and janma are real then what happens? Supposing with great difficulty you put an end to samsara. So samsara stops tomorrow 12 o'clock and your moksha will start when tomorrow 12 o'clock past 12, 1 second 1 second past 12 your moksha will stop. What is the problem? Problem is whatever has a beginning has an end. So if this moksha what you call waiting out of samsara starts at 1 minute past 12 o'clock tomorrow it is not going to last because it is illogical to say something has an adi or beginning but it will come to an end. That which is anadi will never become come to an end and that which is a beginning will must always have an end because the very word beginning like if you say white you have to think about black. If you say good you have to think about evil. If you say beginning you have to think about end. These are logical fallacies. So these are the six problems with the mimamsakas understanding this creation. What is the essence of all this? That if creation is real there is no mukti. Then we see it. Then what? What do we call it? That is Veda is telling because you are mistaken and even to understand that you are mistaken even if you are psychologically mad to cure you no psychiatrist can cure a madcap unless he brings the intelligence of the madcap to a certain state where he understands that my thinking is wrong my thinking that I am mad is completely wrong but I have become habituated. Can I get out of this habit? Yes. Psychiatrist can help. So until the patient comes to understand he never was mad. Madness started at some point of time and therefore madness must end at some point of time in this life or next life. So I am born that is madness. That is called mithya and when I start understanding I was never born I will never be born I cannot be born I was always Brahman that is the point Gaudapada wants to drive into our small brains with this I will stop.