View source for Mandukya Karika Lecture 084 on 04 January 2023

== Full Transcript(Not Corrected) ==
OM JANANIM SHARADAM DEVIM RAMAKRISHNAM JAGADGURUM
PADAPADME TAYOK SRIDHVA PRANAMAMI MUHUR MUHUR
OM BADRAM KANNE VISHRUNAYAM DEVAH
BADRAM PASHYE MAKSHABHIRYA JATRAH
STHIRAY RANGAYE STHUSHTU AVAM SASTANUBHI
YASHE MADEVAHITAYADAYO
SWASTHINA INDRO VIDYASRAVAHA
SWASTHINA PUSHA VISHWAVEDAHA
SWASTHINA STARKSHYO ARISTANIMI
SWASTHINA OMBRIHA SPATIR DADHATU
OM SHANTE SHANTE SHANTE HARE OM
OM
O Gods, may we always hear with our ears what is auspicious.
O Worshipful Ones, may we with our eyes always see what is auspicious.
May we live our allotted life, hail and hearty, offering our praises unto Thee.
May Indra of ancient fame bestow auspiciousness on all of us.
May the all-nourishing potion be propitious to all of us.
May Garuda, the destroyer of all evil, be well disposed towards all of us.
May Brihaspati ensure all our welfare.
OM, Peace, Peace, Peace be unto all.
So we have been studying the second chapter of the Mandukya Karikas.
From now onwards, in chapters 2, 3 and 4,
it is only Godpada's explanation, exposition or commentary upon the first,
especially upon the seventh mantra of the Mandukya Upanishad
where the Atman is described as neither the waking nor the dream nor the deep sleep
but the Atman which is called Turiyam and which contains all this
but transcends all this with the unborn, eternal, without reality
and attaining that Atman alone, one who is out of all darkness.
That is being expounded in the second chapter to prove Prapanca Upashamam.
The unreality or incompleteness, as I prefer to call it, of this world.
This world is not completely unreal but partially real.
Similarly, dream is also partially real.
Similarly, the deep sleep is also partially real.
It is what is called the experience of the partial reality
but mistaking it as complete reality is the source of all problems.
In this second chapter especially, Godpada wants to prove the Mithyatva, partial understanding.
Remember, the world is not unreal.
Our incomplete knowledge of the world is unreal and that is what he wants to prove
through Shruti, through Yukti and through Anubhava,
through scriptural evidence, through rationality as well as our own personal experience.
So the opponent raised certain questions that never compare dream.
Okay, some people even accept dream as part of the reality.
But majority of us, we say dream is a dream.
Then upon waking up, okay, never compare dream with waking state.
The purpose of Godpada is whether we are in the waking or dream or deep sleep state,
all are completely unreal.
So what is the logic for Godpada's such a declaration?
And he gives, whatever be the state we are experiencing,
everything depends upon the experiencer.
Everything that is experienced is temporary, is dependent and comes and goes.
It cannot be relied.
This is the main one we cling to.
So the objector now raises, no you should not say, yes we do accept dreams are unreal,
but we should never say that waking state is completely exactly equal to the dream state.
Now why do you say so?
Because he raises certain things.
What are they?
Utility, continuity, unique experiences, all that is external is real
and in the waking state everything is crystal clear
whereas the dream is hazy, vague, unclear, etc.
So the external is real, internal is unreal.
External means waking state, internal means dream state.
These are the objections.
Now Godpada says it doesn't matter whether it is clear or unclear.
He gives beautiful reasonings which we have seen
that even you are saying the dreams are unclear, non-continuous, non-utilitarian
and all those things.
Do you come to this questioning in the dream state or only in the waking state?
For that an example is taken by some Swamis.
Suppose there are two contestants in a court and there is a judge
and the judge, if he is a good judge, very what is called conscientious judge,
he should not look with bias upon any one of the parties.
He should hear both of them and try to understand
who is the real claimant and who is the false claimant.
He should be completely impartial and that is what Godpada's view.
So if the waker is judging the waking state, naturally he is biased towards waking
so he will give the judgment that waking state is real.
But if the dreamer is asked, peculiar thing is,
in the dream state we don't even realize the waking state.
The dreamer says, what type of question are you asking?
About whom are you talking? There is no contestant.
I am the only contestant. Therefore everything is real.
No. And who should be the judge?
The judge should be the experiencer.
According to the experiencer, both are unreliable
because waking is changing into dream, dream is changing into waking,
both of them are changing into deep sleep
and this is the answer, the waker alone is real.
Now the objector or poropakshi, that is our own, what is called irrational mind,
at some point the doubts will come.
If everything is unreal, then who is the experiencer?
Because an unreality cannot create itself, much less experience itself.
So something unreal cannot create this world,
the world cannot create itself, a pot cannot create itself,
a chair cannot create itself, a house cannot create itself.
There must be a fully conscious being and he requires certain things
and everything that we fashion is only for our requirements.
Whether it is actual utility or entertainment,
even so many things are not necessary.
Seeing a cinema is not necessary for the sake of livelihood
or for the sake of keeping alive.
But eating food, drinking water and taking shelter in inclement weather,
these are absolutely necessary.
Even the crudest savage, he has learnt very soon,
he used to skin the animals which are dead or which he killed
and then he found out great comfort in them
or he hides in caves etc.
and he learnt soon how to make up a fire and keep himself warm etc.
So for living certain things are not necessary.
But if we are living without any problem or danger,
the idea comes, how do I spend my time?
For living we have to spend some time.
But many times rest of the time is completely at our disposal.
So how to pass time? Entertainment is necessary.
So for living, for entertainment, we create all these things.
Who creates? A conscious, living, thinking, rational human being.
So the purvapakshi, the opponent, he asks,
That is, if all objects in both these states,
both means the waking and the dream,
and in brackets we have to imply a deep sleep state,
be unreal according to you,
who apprehends, that is, who creates, who experiences these objects
and who is the creator of these objects?
And that is a very valid question and this is very important.
If I am part of the creation, then I am the created being.
I am a creature.
And if I am a creature, then I must be created.
This is called thinking rationally in the form of karya karana.
If there is an effect, there must be a cause.
So let us find out the cause.
So as we said, you know, when we take the example of a pot,
pot is made out of clay.
Clay is the material cause.
Material cause is inert.
So there must be an intelligent cause.
But before creation, who is the creator?
What is the material cause?
So Advaita Vedanta is forced to accept that
God alone is both the intelligent as well as the material cause.
So that is very obvious for all of us and we have to accept it.
And this is what the whole, in the form of this question and answer,
Gaudapada wants to say, the dreamer or so to say,
the Atman, the conscious Jeevatma alone is real.
Everything that he imagines is just an imagination.
Srishti is an imagination.
And how marvelously this point has been brought out by Sri Ram, Krishna and Holy Mother.
I am going to give you quite a long this thing.
Why do I want to bring?
Because we can read Gospel as it is,
but after reading this kind of tough karikas or shlokas,
especially a person like Gaudapada,
why do I say so?
Because had Shankaracharya been writing these Gaudapada karikas,
it would have been so easy for us because the language one uses,
sometimes it can be confusing language, confounding language,
but it is the very natural talent of Gaudapada to confuse.
It may be clear to him, but for those poor people like us,
who do not have so much of Sanskrit knowledge,
so many things are there, so many words are there,
so much of usage is there,
which unless there are commentators would be impossible for us to understand.
And then it looks as though several of these terms have been borrowed bodily
from the Buddhistic philosophy and that confounds our confusion even more.
But fortunately we have Shankaracharya and so we could understand clearly.
So we have seen in our last karika that both dream as well as waking,
waking and dream states and implication is even the deep sleep state.
If all these three are unreal according to you,
who is the person, who creates and how does he create
and then what purpose he wants to create,
that is how does Brahman or Atman, why does he create,
how does he create, what is the purpose of the creation?
And frankly we don't know the answer.
And here is a very peculiar thing.
So once Swami Vivekananda was asked a similar question,
I am putting it in a slightly different way,
how did the infinite become finite?
That is what the question implies here.
So how did that infinite God has created means become himself
as the material cause, everything that we experience,
the waking, the dream as well as the deep sleep?
Swamiji replied, ask me a rational question.
You said infinite, how can infinite ever become finite?
It is impossible.
Ask a rational question, then I will give you a rational answer.
What is the implication?
Implication is probably the questioner
doesn't have that capacity to understand deeper things.
So he pooh-poohed the question and gave this type of answer.
But we find in the conversations of Swamiji with his disciples,
specifically these questions have been put forward
and especially Sarath Chandra Chakravarthy
and Swamiji gives brilliant answers.
But we should not think, say Ram Krishna doesn't illustrate,
Holy Mother doesn't illustrate because Swamiji,
that was his business to spread the message of Ram Krishna,
he was doing like that.
No, profound ideas are there, that's why I mentioned,
I am going to quote from them how profound they are.
Even I have to admit that I could never have been able to understand this
unless I have studied this Mandukya Upanishad.
So the opponent says if all objects in both the states,
waking and dream, be unreal, then who created this unreal?
Remember unreal doesn't mean they are non-existent.
Unreal means seeing an object, only a little bit of it,
and mistaking it, I have complete knowledge about that object
and that is called unreality.
Like the four blind men touching the elephant
and saying whatever they are experiencing is the entire elephant.
So who is the one who creates?
Ka etan budhyate.
Who is the one who experiences them?
And how did he do it?
Kovai tesha vikalpaka.
Who is the author first?
And for that, Lord Buddha is answering,
we have seen that one in the last class, 12th karika.
Kalpayati atmana atmanam atma devaha swamayaya
sa eva budhyate vedan iti vedanta nishchayana
The self-evolving self imagines itself through itself
by the power of its own maya.
The self itself organizes the objects.
Such is the definite conclusion of Vedanta.
What is it telling?
Goudapada is telling,
don't think me the Goudapada is answering your
what is called stupid question in brackets.
Stupid is bracket question.
No.
Iti vedanta nishchaya.
You study all the Vedantic scriptures.
Meaning Advaita Vedantic scriptures.
Not Vishishta Advaita, not Advaita.
Only Advaita Vedanta scriptures.
So what is it?
Sa eva budhyate vedan
He who is the creator,
he only knows about this.
That's why he is never bound.
A musician is never surprised.
Never can be taken in by the magic he produces.
For example, supposing a musician also you know
can be very hungry.
Suppose there is a musician, suddenly he felt very hungry,
but he is bringing so many things from his hat by telling something.
Peasants are coming, flowers are coming,
and mango fruits are coming out of season.
First class mango fruits.
He is hungry.
Have you ever seen the Vedanta?
That musician eating, you will never see.
Because he is the first person to know it is all nonsense.
I will also remind you,
the musician and his magic.
Musician alone is real.
Magic is unreal.
This is the burden of both Sri Ramakrishna and Holy Mother's teaching.
Every Vedantic teacher tells the same thing.
But earlier Sri Ramakrishna gives a beautiful example
of the farmer who dreamt that he was a king.
He had seven people, seven children,
marvellous children, beautiful, very intelligent,
very righteous, etc.
So many examples are given.
In this very Mandukya Upanishad,
in the first Adhyaya, Agama Prakaranam,
we have seen how the mention of musician is made.
In the olden days, there was an Indian rope tree.
The musician comes and in front of everybody,
he throws the rope and it stretches infinitely
beyond our sight into the space
and he himself climbs.
After that, there was the sound of terrible fighting
and then some pieces of meat, hands, legs, everything
had fallen. Everybody had forgotten the musician
and they were horrified.
And then suddenly the magic ends
and the musician bows down
and the same hat out of which he produced the rope,
now he stretches.
You stupid fellows, now we want to empty your pockets.
That is what he wants.
We have seen this one.
So, this Vedanta tells what magic Ramakrishna also tells.
We will come to that.
So, first of all, the Self is self-effulgent.
Devaha.
That is, He is Svaprakashakaha.
He is endowed with pure consciousness,
pure knowledge, pure existence, pure Ananda.
What does He do?
I have some doubts about Him also.
And if He is so happy,
why do you want to get some entertainment?
Unless you want entertainment,
as we require entertainment,
where is the need for you?
Unfortunately, what happens, you know?
No, we don't know the answer.
For that, you have to go to God.
And when you go to God, you forget the question.
Now, the problem is, it doesn't exist at all.
When the problem exists, the answer doesn't come.
And when you go to God and then decide to go,
the moment you cross that borderline,
the problem is resolved.
There is no world, only God.
And there is no God.
You are that God.
And then who is going to question?
This is a very peculiar situation.
But we are still in that questioner's group,
not the answerer's group.
Okay.
So, this Devaha means He who is pure consciousness,
Atmana, by Himself,
He manifests Himself as this entire world, Kalpayati.
Kalpayati means that imagines.
Imagination means it is not real.
So, a carpenter takes a piece of wood
and he really creates,
even if the carpenter disappears.
But we see that whatever he created,
all the furniture is there.
But in this case, just like our dreams,
you imagine.
Every piece of dream is imagination.
Only Goudapada comes and tells,
unlike us who think my dream is my imagination,
but my waking state is not my imagination,
because I see.
We have seen all the objections that the opponent had raised.
The external world is real,
it is continuous,
and it is experiential,
and there is utility,
and there is birth,
there is growth,
there is death, etc., etc.
So, how does He create?
He requires an instrument.
How does God require?
God, out of His Maya,
Swamaya, by His own Maya,
Kalpayate,
He imagines the world.
How?
Atmana, Atma,
that is Himself,
imagines I am the world.
Who is the experiencer?
Himself.
Who is the experienced?
Himself.
What are the instruments of this experience?
Himself.
What is the partial knowledge
that He gets through this experience?
Himself.
Everything is Himself,
and this is crystal clearly experienced by us.
When we analyze our dream,
I am the dream individual.
I am the dream world.
My eyes in the body that I created in my dream,
as an individual,
is also my own creation.
What I experience is my own creation,
and if somebody comes and then tries to kill me,
that is also my own imagination,
and somebody's children come,
my children come,
and then hug me,
Dad or Mom,
I love you very much,
that is also an imagination.
Everything is an imagination.
Saiva Budhyate Veda
That Atman alone,
He experiences,
He understands Veda.
Veda means all the dualities.
This is man, this is woman,
this is good, this is bad,
this is pleasant, this is unpleasant,
this is profit, this is loss,
this is victory, this is loss.
Everything is done by Him.
Nobody else is there.
Here is a word called Saha means Atma,
Ewa Budhyate,
Budhyate means He has perfect knowledge.
What is the perfect knowledge?
Even while He tries to see His own dream,
unlike us, we think it is real.
It is like a person seeing cinema,
which he created,
the director and the producer,
both of them are sitting,
they themselves are watching their own creation,
a drama,
or a poet is enjoying his own created poetry,
an artist is enjoying his own production called art,
everything is Himself.
This is the answer,
and this is the answer of every follower of Advaita Vedanta,
Iti Vedanta Nischeha.
So I hope you understand this one.
So this is what we have to understand.
Now I promised you,
I will take Sri Ramakrishna's Gospel,
because when we understand Gospel,
we understand Mandukya.
When we understand Mandukya,
we understand Gospel,
Parasparambhava Yantra,
much better way.
So let us come.
Here is from the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna.
All else is unreal,
that is the subject.
The truth Sri Ramakrishna is telling,
remember,
the truth is that God alone is real,
and all else is unreal.
What is that all else?
Men,
universe,
house,
children,
all these are like the magic of the magician.
And then Sri Ramakrishna is expounding,
the magician strikes his wand,
and says,
come delusion,
come confusion.
Exact experience of all of us.
First comes delusion,
then comes confusion.
Then he says to the audience,
open the lid of the pot,
see the birds fly into the sky.
But the magician alone is real,
and his magic unreal.
The unreal exists for a second,
and then vanishes.
What is Sri Ramakrishna telling?
Everything is completely temporary.
What is the definition of Satyam?
Real,
Trikala,
Abadhita.
Whatever,
now or changes,
there is no time,
past, present and future,
that alone is real.
What is unreal?
The unreal exists for a second,
and then vanishes.
Sri Ramakrishna illustrates,
Shiva was seated in Kailasa,
and his companion Nandi was near him.
Suddenly a terrific noise arose.
Priyad sir asked Nandi,
what does this sound mean?
Shiva said,
so Ravana is born.
That is the meaning.
A few moments later,
another terrific noise was heard.
Now what is this noise?
Nandi asked.
Shiva said with a smile,
Ramana is dead.
Remember,
these are the created illustrations by Sri Ramakrishna
for the sake of expounding the Vedantic truth.
So on another occasion,
Parvati was there,
Shiva and Parvati,
instead of Nandi.
So Sri Ramakrishna continues,
birth and death are like magic.
See what he is telling.
Janma and Murthyo are like magic.
You see the magic for a second
and then it disappears.
God alone is real.
All else is unreal.
How marvelously Sri Ramakrishna illustrates.
Water alone is real.
Its bubbles appear and disappear.
Here water means Atman.
Bubbles means this world.
This world consisting of the waking and dreaming.
They disappear into the very water
from which they arise.
So the waking disappears into the Duriyam
and the dream also disappears exactly into the Duriyam only.
Another occasion,
Master took aim.
I learnt Vedanta from Nanta.
Brahman alone is real.
The world is illusory.
This is the famous teaching of Shankaracharya
who summarized his own learning
into half a sentence Brahma Satyam Jagan Mithya.
Again Sri Ramakrishna brings the illustration.
The magician performs his magic.
He produces a mango tree
which even bears mangoes.
But this is all slate of hand.
The magician alone is real.
Magic comes, magic disappears.
But the magician alone remains.
Ramakrishna again comments,
In the light of Vedantic reasoning,
the world is illusory and unreal as a dream.
The Supreme Soul is the witness.
The witness of the three states of waking, dream and deep sleep.
The waking state is only as real as the dream.
Let me tell you a story that agrees with your attitude.
I hope you are connecting the dots.
You see, earlier we have seen in the Karikas,
Kaha budhyate etan
All these Vedas,
The Supreme Soul alone is the witness.
The witness of the three states of waking, dream and deep sleep.
This is what Sri Ramakrishna is telling.
And remember, you must have heard
Mandukya Karika, especially Mandukya Karikas
from the mouth of, lips of his Guru Totapuri.
That is what he is telling, that I have learned from Nanta.
Nanta means Totapuri.
So he is telling, the waking state is only as real as the dream state.
This is important.
The whole objection of the opponent is
we accept, somehow we will accept, okay,
the dream is unreal.
But what about the waking state?
We have given you so many, at least five objections.
Its utility, its continuity, its clarity,
everything like that.
No, Sri Ramakrishna is telling that
the waking state is only as real as the dream.
Let me tell you a story that agrees with your attitude.
The greatness of Sri Ramakrishna is,
he is like Kalidasa.
For every great teaching,
he attaches immediately so that his audience can understand
that a story, a simile like Kalidasa.
Here he gives a story.
What was the story?
We know the story.
There was a farmer who lived in the countryside
and he had only one son.
And then we know the story, he died.
And then this farmer was working,
his wife sent for him
and he came just witnessing as if nothing had happened.
His wife got angry and shouted at him.
And then the farmer says,
yesterday night I had a dream,
I was a king,
I was the father of seven beautiful,
intelligent, righteous children
and when my dream broke,
then I found myself,
everything is temporary.
So shall I weep for those seven children
whom I lost or shall I weep
for this one child who is lost?
You add a little bit of spice, masala.
Supposing, oh my dear wife,
you also happen to die out of heart attack
and not one single,
not one hundredth of a drop of water
is ever going to flow through my eyes.
What about yourself?
Yes, if this body dies,
exactly I will be laughing at it
because I am an enlightened soul.
Who is talking?
The farmer is an enlightened soul.
We can talk,
what is called,
caught loads of ears,
together we can talk.
But when something so called happens
in the waking state,
immediately all the Vedanta flies through the window
and oh my wife,
you are going and from now onwards
who is there to prepare for me so lovingly
all the masala dosha,
have a idli and all those things.
That is our practice of Vedanta.
But this format,
you have to understand,
is a Jeevan Mukta,
a realized soul.
What does it mean?
It means,
even householders like Naga Mahasaya,
like this format,
can be Jeevan Muktas.
And then Sri Ramakrishna continues,
Every sentence is a precious gem,
it is the most beautiful commentary
for the entire Mandukya Upanishad
as well as the Karika.
Sri Ramakrishna continues,
The ego is like a stick,
it lies across the ocean of Satchitananda
and probably,
Sri Ramakrishna was talking to him
and probably M was not paying so much attention
like as you do when I am talking
in the Mandukya Upanishad Karika.
So M, listen,
but to pay attention to what I am talking,
when this,
what is this?
The ego is like a stick.
When this ego is taken away,
there remains only one undivided ocean of Satchitananda.
But as long as the stick of ego remains,
there is an appearance of two.
Here is one part of the water
and there is another part.
But attaining the knowledge of Brahman,
one is established in Samadhi.
Sri Ramakrishna continues,
The ego, like a stick,
lies across the ocean of Satchitananda.
Listen to what I am saying.
So as long as the stick of ego remains,
there is an appearance of the two.
But when it is taken away,
pure Satchitananda is there.
Is this not what Boudapada is trying to explain
to all those peculiar terminology
that he is telling?
Sri Ramakrishna continues,
Attaining the knowledge of Brahman,
one is established in Samadhi.
According to the Vedanta,
Brahman alone is real.
All else is Maya, dreamlike and unsubstantial.
Ego, like a stick,
lies across the ocean of Satchitananda.
God and his splendor.
God alone is real.
His splendor is but a two-day's existence.
What is his splendor?
His creation.
The magician and his magic
all become speechless with wonder at the magic.
But it is all unreal.
Because what happens,
just imagine you are watching a magician.
He produces first class all forms of mangoes.
What happens to all those mangoes?
Is he going to distribute?
If at all, he is going to distribute.
The mangoes are real.
He is definitely not going to distribute.
I will not do that if I am the magician.
Not only that.
If he is not a stupid magician,
you know there is a variety of mangoes
and every mango is costing like a lakh of rupees.
Somebody has produced some Japanese mango like that.
I read the news.
Sold it for one lakh of rupees
and they gave the photo also.
I am so happy to see the photo.
I am quite satisfied with that photo itself.
Now, why cannot this magician produce?
After all, he is doing all this magic for what?
For earning a few pennies,
a few paisa,
maya paisa.
Why cannot he produce that beautiful,
that one lakh rupees mango?
If he has that capacity to produce all forms of mangoes,
he has equally the capacity to produce the costliest.
And then why cannot he go to New York and produce it?
Because he will get it in dollars,
which is of much more value.
So people see only the magician alone is real.
The rich man and his garden.
People see only the garden.
They should look for its rich owner.
All these factors.
Sri Ram Krishna continues.
If we understand Sri Ram Krishna,
these are all factors.
What is the factor?
Astapasha.
What are the astapashas?
Shame and then feeling very bad.
Shalai, dance in the public.
Lajja, prena, maya, shaila, etc.
These are called eight factors.
But by studying Mandukya Garika,
by listening to the gospel of Sri Ram Krishna
or any other scripture,
nothing is going to happen.
All these factors fall off in a moment,
only by the grace of God.
Do you know what it is like?
Suppose a room has been kept dark a thousand years.
The moment a man brings a light into it,
the darkness vanishes.
Not little by little.
All of a sudden.
Haven't you seen the magician's feet?
He takes a string with many knots
and ties one end to something,
keeping the other end in his hand.
Then he shakes the string once or twice
and immediately all the knots come under.
But another man cannot untie the knots,
however he may try.
All the knots of ignorance come under
in the twinkling of an eye through the Guru's grace.
The magician alone is real.
His magic is illusory.
This is called discrimination.
All else is unreal.
The truth is that God alone is real.
All else is unreal.
The man, universe, house, children,
all these are like the magic of the magician.
So this is what he says.
The magician says to the audience,
Open the lid of the pot.
You will see birds flying into the sky.
But the magician alone is real.
Nothing else.
There are many other illustrations.
I have only selected a few.
But according to my opinion,
this is the greatest commentary
and thousand times you may listen
to any Swami's exposition,
but once you read these word precious gems
of the teachings of Sri Ramakrishna,
by His grace only we can understand.
So Dhiyo Yonaha Prachodayat.
O Mother, enlighten my intelligence.
You explain it to me.
And that becomes an intuition.
Now, let us come to Holy Mother.
And Holy Mother's teachings
are also very aptly named as
the Gospel of Holy Mother,
Bengali Sri Sri Maher Potha.
One disciple is asking.
Disciple, intense feeling is like a dream.
A man dreams.
What he thinks is what happens.
You are reading a book or you watch something
and then your thoughts are there.
You lie down and then all those thoughts solidify
and you start dreaming.
Now Holy Mother,
this disciple was addressing Holy Mother
and Holy Mother is addressing the disciple.
Yes, it is a dream.
The whole world is a dream.
Even this, the waking state is a dream.
And like the opponent,
the disciple is arguing with Holy Mother.
No, this is not a dream.
But then it would have disappeared
in the twinkling of an eye.
This state exists for many many births.
This is what we call
opponent's argument of continuity.
Even when I am dreaming,
I am not aware of the waking state.
So long as the dream state lasts.
But the waking state,
the same house,
the same parents,
the same family members,
the same boss,
the same office,
the same scolding boss
or favoring boss
or the same frowning wife
or pleased wife,
the same good children
or the same, what is called,
like the dream,
all the seven intelligent,
princess intelligent,
beautiful and righteous.
Is it not?
This is what the disciple
is exactly reflecting.
Dream is real
but waking is not real
because yesterday night
I saw you,
bowed down to you
and went to bed.
I had some dreams.
I woke up
and then I came to you.
I see the same you.
How can it be a dream?
This state exists for many many births
or many births
from the time of my creation
until I attain Mukti.
So many births it exists.
What is Holy Mother saying?
Let it be so.
Still, it is nothing but a dream.
What you dreamt last night
does not exist now.
As a matter of fact,
on the previous night,
the disciple had an amazing dream.
Holy Mother is not like Odapada,
go on trying to counter
to any argument.
This is called Vedanta Nishchayana.
Either you understand
or you try to understand.
It may take many lives
but in the end you understand
I am only telling you in simple words.
So, let it be so.
Still, it is nothing but a dream.
What you dreamt last night
does not exist now.
Disciple,
a man dreams what he thinks.
Mother, yes,
it is a dream.
The whole world is a dream.
Even this waking state is a dream.
No, this is not a dream.
Then it would have disappeared.
Mother, no, no, no.
Let it be so.
Still, it is nothing but a dream.
What you dreamt
that disappeared.
This world also will disappear.
This is what illustration.
And if you heard,
listened carefully,
then your mind should be clear.
What does Ramakrishna and Holy Mother say?
Both of them say
the waking state is as unreal
as the dream state.
How could they say so?
This is the argument
like Godfather, they gave
that when you are in the waking state,
dream state is unreal.
What happens when you are in the dream state?
Dream state alone is real.
Whatever state is real,
compared to that,
every other state
definitely becomes unreal.
So, therefore,
you apply a little bit of true logic,
be a little more intelligent,
in comparison with each other,
both negate each other,
both change each other,
both of them fall down by the roadside
because both of them are negated
by each one of them.
So, that is what Gaudapada says,
Brahman, Bhagwan alone is real.
The Atman, the pure awareness alone is the knower,
whether it is an illusion without or within,
the objects are illumined
by the conscious principle in us.
So, that is what Gaudapada is telling,
that is what Ramakrishna says,
the magician,
here magician means,
stands for the Atman,
for Bhagwan,
for God,
alone is real.
And then,
the argument of Gaudapada is,
in fact,
if consciousness were not in us,
there would have been certainly
no illumination
in the sun, moon and the stars.
This argument is
from the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad,
there is a more or less chapter
called Swayamjyoti Brahmana.
That is,
when we are in the waking state,
the light that comes from the sun
and moon etc.
will illumine the world for us.
So, what happens
when the sun and moon set?
And the answer,
second answer is,
if there is fire,
that means some light
that will illumine us.
Then what happens,
if that fire also is put out?
There is no fire.
Then he says,
the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad says,
that there is the inner consciousness
and it hears some sounds
and then by that it guesses,
there must be somebody nearby
and that is called experiencing
the reality or the light.
Sound is a light,
smell is a light,
how do you know?
So, you are passing in the bazaar,
suddenly you get the smell of camphor
and then camphor only,
at least in South India,
mostly comes from a temple.
What do you say?
There must be a temple
and they are using camphor
or if you prefer,
there is suddenly a smell of
what is called onion fried
and then you imagine,
where there is onion,
there is a pakoda.
So, that is also illumining for us,
what the object is.
So, the consciousness should be there,
consciousness is there.
So, at night,
even if there is no other light,
consciousness itself becomes the
svayam jyoti.
He says,
I am lying down,
I am on the bed,
I had eaten,
finished just now my supper or dinner
and I have nothing to worry about
or I have something to worry about
and then that is the first point.
Second point is,
if I am not conscious,
can I know that there is a sun,
there is a moon,
there are stars,
there is fire?
Certainly not.
If somebody is shouting,
if I am unconscious,
will I know?
No.
If somebody is cutting my body
with a saw,
do you think,
will I know?
Absolutely not.
It is not possible.
So, consciousness is the
illuminating principle everywhere.
So, it is declared in the Vinanta
that this what we call
jivatma,
conscious principle,
he alone is the reality
whether it is waking state
or dream state
or deep sleep state.
It is the consciousness which
illuminates all these three states
and that alone is the creator,
that alone is the experiencer
or enjoyer,
that alone will wake up one day
and says enough
of these imaginations.
Like a child
who builds castles
on the bank of the sand bank
and then in the evening
before going home,
he kicks the whole lot.
In Bengali,
there is a marvellous song.
So,
Oh Lord,
I think it is a Ramindra Sangeet
or Najrol Geeti,
I think.
So, Oh Lord,
you are like a child,
Anamone,
Virat Shishu,
like a huge child,
you are building,
you are breaking them,
you are making them appear
and disappear.
For what purpose?
Anamone,
there is nothing,
no purpose,
just like that.
So, it is in the light of pure consciousness
that we get our world of dreams
illumined.
Again, it is the light of the Atman
that illumines for us
all the external lights
in the waking state,
all the internal lights
in the dream state,
also in the sleep state.
We must never forget
there are so many misunderstandings
that in deep sleep
and unconscious,
such a horrible misunderstanding,
then if you are unconscious,
can you say that you are in deep sleep state?
Even to say,
I am in this deep sleep state
and I am filled with Ananda
and you are experiencing it
from the beginning of that deep sleep state
until it breaks out,
the pure consciousness
has no break.
Or what breaks,
what appears and disappears,
are the three states,
waking dream and deep sleep state.
The pure consciousness
has no such sleeping state
or breaking state.
So, that is what
Bhagawan is also telling,
Although I am unborn
and my transcendental body
never deteriorates,
and although I am the Lord
of all sentient beings,
I still appear
in every millennium
in my original transcendental form
for what purpose?
To teach people
everything is unreal,
all the magic is unreal,
the magician alone is real.
And how does He create all these things?
That is the second question.
Who creates?
It is the Atman,
pure consciousness.
And who imagines
all these things into various forms?
It is the same,
self-same,
illumining Atman.
That will come in the 13th Karika.
We will talk about it
in our next class.

[[Category:Mandukya Karika]]