Chandogya Upanishad 4.14-15 Lecture 145 on 11 October 2025

Full Transcript (Not Corrected)

Opening Invocation

ॐ जननीं सारदां देवीं रामकृष्णं जगदगुरुम पादपद्मे तयो: श्रित्वा प्रणमामि मुहुर्मुहु :

Om Jananim Saradam devim Ramakrishnam jagadgurum Padapadme tayoh shritva pranamami muhurmuhuh.

ॐ आप्यायन्तु ममाङ्गानि वाक्प्राणश्चक्षुः

श्रोत्रमथो बलमिन्द्रियाणि च सर्वाणि।

सर्वम् ब्रह्मोपनिषदम् माऽहं ब्रह्म

निराकुर्यां मा मा ब्रह्म

निराकरोद निराकरणमस्त्व निराकरणम् मेऽस्तु।

तदात्मनि निरते य उपनिषत्सु धर्मास्ते

मयि सन्तु ते मयि सन्तु।

ॐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः॥

oṃ āpyāyantu mamāṅgāni vākprāṇaścakṣuḥ

śrotramatho balamindriyāṇi ca sarvāṇi.

sarvam brahmopaniṣadam mā’haṃ brahma

nirākuryāṃ mā mā brahma

nirākaroda nirākaraṇamastva nirākaraṇam me’stu.

tadātmani nirate ya upaniṣatsu dharmāste

mayi santu te mayi santu.

oṃ śāntiḥ śāntiḥ śāntiḥ

Translation

May my limbs, speech, vital force, eyes, ears, as also strength and all the organs become well developed. Everything is the Brahman revealed in the Upanishads. May I not deny Brahman. May not Brahman deny me. Let there be no spurning of me by Brahman. Let there be no rejection of Brahman by me. May all the virtues that are spoken of in the Upanishads repose in me who am engaged in the pursuit of the Self. May they repose in me. Om. Peace. Peace. Peace be unto all.

Recap of Previous Section

In our last class, we completed almost the 14th section, and then after all the fires had taught Upakosala, finally they told and informed him: "There is a path by which you will reach the supreme reality called Brahman, and your own teacher will instruct you on how you can reach. Our purpose is to make you ready, to make you prepared, and we have succeeded in it."

After hearing this, very soon the teacher returned, and then he exclaimed: "My son, my dear one, disciple, your face shines like one who knows Brahman. There is no doubt about it." The phrase "shines like" doesn't mean whether he actually attained or not, but as if the person had already reached Brahman knowledge.

The Prediction of Attainment

We have to understand this just like in the Kaṭha Upaniṣad, where Yama Dharma Rāja predicts: "You have already reached the house of Brahman, the home of Brahman." That means anyone with these qualifications, without any doubt, is soon going to reach.

So what the fires have taught you is very well done, and they have actually prepared you. "I am very glad about it," said the teacher. Of course, as we discussed, the teacher already knew that the fires are the Guru himself.

Understanding the Nature of Guru

But we should not mistake this: Guru is not an individual. Brahman is in the form of Guru. Whenever we say "Guru is Brahma," we have to reverse the situation:

Brahma is the Guru
Viṣṇu is the Guru
Maheśvara is the Guru

Not the other way round. Why? Because it is only the Divine that is manifesting, either as spiritual knowledge or as secular knowledge too. It is the Brahman alone who is manifesting as good as well as evil. Brahman alone is the saint; Brahman alone is the sinner. But when knowledge dawns, the distinction between saint and sinner, good and evil, puṇya and pāpa—everything will disappear, including bondage and liberation.

The Three States of Consciousness

In fact, this happens every day. Whenever our mind stops functioning, we are in a peculiar state. You can call it a state of Brahman only, turīya avasthā only, but temporarily, that's all. But it has a hidden causality, and therefore it forcibly drags us to this world of duality after some time. So we are bound by time, space, and causation. And that state of the mind which is bound by time, space, and causation is what we call, in general, bondage.

Why Three States?

So all the three states exist. Why three states? Because three bodies are there: the gross, subtle, and causal. Even the deep sleep is a state only. Why? Because it is bound by time. It comes to an end. But it gives us a good glimpse into what our true nature is.

How do we know? By the results. And what is the result? Indescribable, unbroken happiness. And there is something very interesting here: it is only bound, broken, only upon waking up. But so long as we are in that deep sleep state, time itself was transcended. There is no bondage any longer there.

Swami Vivekananda's Commentary on Upakosala's Story

So now the teacher is trying to say, and I also explained to you what Swami Vivekananda's commentary on this very Upakosala story is. The voice didn't say to Upakosala that the fire which he was worshipping, or the sun, or the moon, or the lightning, or anything else mentioned there—remember, twelve items were mentioned—was all wrong. But it showed him that the same spirit which was inside the sun and the moon and lightning and the fire and the earth was in him.

Transformation of Vision

So everything became transformed, as it were, in the eyes of Upakosala. This is a very important point. Anyone who attains to the same state as Upakosala, his whole vision becomes transformed, divine, because he started seeing Brahman in these special manifestations.

That is why, if we still remember the tenth chapter of the Bhagavad Gītā, which is especially named as Vibhūti Yoga—Vibhūti means manifestation, higher manifestation of the Divine Lord.

Everything is Manifestation of God

Everything is the manifestation of the Divine Lord. But even an ant, an amoeba, even a rock, even a clod of earth is nothing but manifestation of God. Because anything that exists, existence itself is the manifestation of Brahman—bound, limited by time, space, and object (teṣāṃ kāla vastu pariccheda). But it is nothing but Brahman.

The beholder is only beholding; it's not that there is an object there. That is something to be taken notice of. When I see a tree, is there really a tree, or am I looking at Brahman and thinking it is a tree? The truth is, if I am a Brahmajñānī, the same tree will not be a tree. It will be pure Brahman only. So it is a fault, a limitation on the part of the individual only.

The Deification of Nature

Swamiji continues: "The sun, the moon, the stars, the lightning—everything became transformed and deified. The real nature, which is called Brahman, was known."

So the teacher, after hearing the answer from his disciple, beloved disciple—because he addresses him as Saumya (Saumya means extremely lovable, devoted, loved child)—said: "They only took you and made you fit, and they showed you glimpses of Brahman in the form of these twelve objects. But now I will reveal to you that pūrṇa Brahman, full knowledge of Brahman."

The Result of Knowing Brahman

And then he says: "What would be the result? Suppose a person has knowledge of Brahman, what does he become? Brahma veda brahmaiva bhavati—he becomes Brahman indeed."

The Lotus Leaf Analogy

And what would be the result? Imagine a lake is there. There are hundreds or thousands of lotus leaf plants are there, and every plant has leaves. And most of the leaves may be submerged in the water, but the water does not affect them (āpaḥ na śliṣyanti). They do not get wet because there is a coating on the leaf, on all sides of the leaf, and the water cannot penetrate.

Even if you put some oil and then some slippery substance like gum, if you are handling that one, it will not affect you because the oil will never allow it—it stands between you and that adhesive. That is why Śrī Rāmakṛṣṇa used to say: "You rub a little oil on your fingers before trying to cut down the cucumber, because at the end of the cucumber, there is a glutinous substance. And once it touches your hand, you won't be able to work efficiently, effectively. So you can protect yourself from that."

Evil Cannot Touch the Knower

Evam evam—in the same way, one who knows this (vidhi), one who knows this, that means who knows "I am Brahman," evil will not affect him because he cannot do evil. Because he is not the doer, he is not the enjoyer.

The Four Śaktis

Only those who are bound have three manifestations of śakti (energy):

Icchā Śakti - The desire, the capacity to desire. This is the root cause of any action.
Kriyā Śakti - The power of action
Bhoga Śakti - The power of enjoyment

It is also told: Jñāna Śakti, Icchā Śakti, and Kriyā Śakti. A fourth is to be added: Bhoga Śakti.

How These Śaktis Function

Icchā Śakti means the desire, the capacity to desire. That would be the root cause of any action. Then that produces Kriyā Śakti. That is translated—every desire is translated either consciously or unconsciously.

When some itching is taking place, when you are deeply asleep, you don't consciously scratch that part of the body. If something bites, automatically a mechanical action takes place. But there is a desire: "Something is irritating me; I must get rid of it."

Then you will have to know first: "Something is irritating me." That is called Jñāna Śakti. Then the desire comes: "I must get rid of it." That is Icchā Śakti. Then your hand mechanically goes there and tries to rub or remove anything that is causing discomfort. That is called Kriyā Śakti.

But we have to add a fourth one: Bhoga Śakti. Then we enjoy the result: "I am at peace." Scratching has produced ānanda by removing that particular irritation. And that is the process with regard to every type of activity.

The Role of Desires

There would be no activity without desire. Once somebody asked Holy Mother: "How come people are so much caught in this net of Mahāmāyā?" And Mother said in such simple language: "It is all because there are lots of desires. And so long as there are desires, the body will persist. And as soon as all desires disappear, immediately the body will fall, because the purpose of the body is only to become āptakāmaḥ—to attain every type of desirable object."

The State of Desirelessness

And once it is done, the person knows that there is nothing more for me to attain, because "I am everything." Aham sarvam—"Aham Brahma" means "Aham sarvam." Brahma means bṛhat. Bṛhat means that which includes everything.

So the very root, the unfulfilled desire, will not be there. That is one way of looking at it. Another way is: a person who knows Brahman becomes ānanda svarūpa. And when we become ānanda svarūpa, we will have no desires.

The Simplest Example

The simplest way to understand this statement: suppose you are hungry, and then you get very tasty food, and you eat that food. And as soon as you eat that food, instantaneously there is a state of desirelessness. And that is called ānanda. And so long as that desirelessness continues—it may be half a millisecond, ten milliseconds, it doesn't matter—no other desire will ever arise in that mind.

You notice it. We hardly notice it because we do not think about it. We have to hear from somebody. At least after hearing, you go on thinking.

Happiness is Brahman

So long as a person is happy, he is actually one with Brahman, because every happiness is nothing but Brahman. And happiness means all limitations are removed. Removal of limitations by time, space, and object is called ānanda. And what is that which is beyond time, space, and object? That is called Brahman.

So, albeit unconsciously, we identify with our own true nature. And as a result, we don't experience any other desire. But then what happens? Our body-mind, our old saṃskāras, pull us back from Brahman and make us fall into brahmā (the world of becoming)—from Brahma to brahmā.

The Practice of Non-Slipping

Until we practice spiritual disciplines and learn the art of not slipping down from Brahma into brahmā. So karma na śliṣyate—no action can ever, in infinity of time, ever contaminate this person.

This was the instruction by the teacher, Satyakāma Jābāla. Then Upakosala understood it, because he had become capable of understanding by now. He said: "Pravakṣyate me bhagavan iti—I am ready. I am all ears now. All attention. Please tell me about that Brahman which you have promised. Te tad brahma pravakṣyāmi—please teach me that Brahman. Pravakṣyate me bhagavan."

The Meaning of Bhagavān

Bhagavān is a beautiful word. We address God Himself as Bhagavān. So therefore he said: "You are none other than Brahman." That means, excepting God, nobody can give the knowledge of God.

Tasmāi ha uvāca—and to such a disciple who is endowed with śraddhā and who is also ready (because he did a lot of upāsanas), the teacher started.

Introduction to Section 15

Then, with this, the fourth section is over. Now we are entering the fourth chapter, fifteenth section of Chāndogya Upaniṣad. And this particular section is called Netra Sthita Puruṣa Upāsanā.

The Meaning of Upadeśa

So the ācārya is giving the upadeśa. Upadeśa is a beautiful word. Upadeśa means what? Deśa means direction. Upadeśa means "you move in this direction. That is your real destination. Don't go in any other direction. Only go in this direction."

That is why Guru, a teacher, is also termed as Deśika. "Taṃ deśikendraṃ satataṃ namāmi—I salute that Parama Deśika, the person who can show the right direction."

Ramakrishna's Example

Rāmakṛṣṇa also used that word. Somebody will show you. If a person is sincere and wants to reach Purī, Jagannāth, but because of ignorance he is traveling in the wrong direction, God Himself will appear to him in the form of a GPS and says: "Where are you going?" "Oh, I am going to Purī." "But this is not the way. That is the way."

So Bhagavān only comes as father, as mother, as teacher, as friend, as protector, as everything.

The Nature of Puruṣa

So here, there is that being, that pure consciousness, that Puruṣa. We have seen in Puruṣa Sūkta: Puruṣa is not a male human being, much less a human being. Puruṣa means puri śete—He because of whom the body-mind becomes enlivened, the body-mind becomes aware, the body-mind feels "I am something."

Even that feeling "I am" is because of the effect, nearness, closeness of that Puruṣa. Puruṣa means puri śete—He who pervades the whole universe. And He is the only one.

The Unity of All

What about the rest of it? Otherwise, we may get the idea: the body is there, the mind is there, and there is something within it. You see a utensil, you see a glass—in that, there is water or milk. So the milk is separate and the glass is separate. No! The milk and the glass both are made up of same thing.

The Chocolate Cup Example

Once I had an experience while traveling in an airplane. They gave me a cup of chocolate—very nice, soft chocolate inside—and they gave me a spoon also. And then I thought: "Oh, they are very thoughtful people. They have given me a beautiful cup." And it looked exactly like a cup.

And then, by mistake, I broke that spoon, and it is nothing but—it is also made up of chocolate only! Then I realized even the cup also is made up of chocolate only.

So if children look at it: "This is a cup, this is a spoon. They are different from the chocolate because it is inside this cup." No! The antaḥ bahiḥ—inside and outside, sa-cara-acara—whether it is living or non-living, everything is nothing but that Puruṣa only.

The Puruṣa in the Upaniṣads

And that Puruṣa is especially mentioned in some parts of the Upaniṣads. We have seen in Kena Upaniṣad: "Śrotrasya śrotram, manaso manaḥ"—He is the real seer, the real hearer, the real thinker.

So the mind is capable of thinking because of Him. The eye is capable of seeing because of Him. And the ear is capable of hearing because of Him. What is that? Consciousness. Without consciousness, there is no difference between a living person and a dead person.

Understanding Akṣi Puruṣa

So we also have to remember—I will come to that very soon. So the term Akṣi Puruṣa translates to "the person seen in the eye." This does not refer to the physical reflection we see in someone's eyeball, but to a deeper spiritual presence.

Spiritual Significance

What is the spiritual significance? Akṣi Puruṣa is identified with the Ātman, the inner self or soul. He is the force that animates the eye and enables vision, representing the seer (draṣṭā) rather than the seen (dṛśya).

Inner Vision

Through practices such as brahmacarya (celibacy), one purifies the mind and develops an inner vision, allowing the true self, or Akṣi Puruṣa, to be perceived.

Connection with Brahman

What is the connection with Brahman? Akṣi Puruṣa is essentially Brahman, the ultimate reality or cosmic spirit in Hindu philosophy. Meditating on Akṣi Puruṣa means contemplating the seer or the eye that perceives everything through the eye.

Practical Aspects of This Upāsanā

So what are the practical aspects of this upāsanā? Practitioners meditate on the concept of the inner seer, the presence of that pure consciousness that allows every activity of the sense organ, including the mind, and that is called consciousness.

So this particular meditation prescribed here by Satyakāma to Upakosala focuses on realizing the deeper self beyond physical appearances.

The Way to Self-Realization

What is the way for such self-realization? This vidyā emphasizes the importance of seeing beyond the physical world to understand and connect with the inner self, which is part of the ultimate reality called Brahman.

The Essence of This Teaching

With this background, let us proceed to the mantra itself. What is the essence of this background?

So the physical eye that we are able to see in each other is called golaka, a window. Behind that, there is a nervous root—certain nerves. Nerves are very subtle things; you cannot cut a body and see them.

The Nervous System

So through that nerve current, a type of energy, or what the eye perceives, that is sent. Without that nerve, that knowledge will not flow, like your telephone wire. And then that is conveyed, connected with the mind. And it is the mind which cognizes not only this particular nerve current but all the ten organs.

How the Mind Integrates Sensory Information

The eye has gone further towards the east, so the mind knows "I am moving towards the east or south," whatever it is. The hand is grabbing, and the mind knows—the hand doesn't know what it is grabbing. But the hand sends: "This is what this instrument called hand is holding."

So like that, every sense organ—five sense organs of action, five sense organs of knowledge—all of them send this information, and the mind has the ability to unify, harmonize all of them, and make a complete picture of it. And that picture is what is called, in this example: "This is a tree. I am moving towards this tree. And it is of green color, and it is of such and such a form, and it is having a particular smell. It is rough for the touch, and it smells fragrant—beautiful fragrance is there."

The Limitation of Each Sense Organ

So like that, every sense organ sends its own information. And as I mentioned earlier, each sense organ is authorized only to obtain one particular piece of knowledge. The eye cannot hear nor smell. Similarly, the ear cannot see. Every sense organ's knowledge is extremely limited. Only the mind collates it, makes a whole picture, and then it understands: "This is called a tree. This is a human being," etc., etc.

The Mind as Inert Matter

So, but the mind also cannot function because it is also jaḍa vastu (inert matter). It is borrowing from buddhi, and buddhi is borrowing from cit. So that cidābhāsa illumines that instrument called the whole mind. And that is called the inner instrument, antaḥkaraṇa.

The Four Faculties of Mind

And it has got, as I said, four faculties. All the four faculties are divided again into two parts:

Ahaṃkāra (ego) - is one singular faculty
Citta (memory), Manas (mind), and Buddhi (intellect)

How Cognition Works

"I am thinking, what is this?" Ahaṃkāra has to join with that particular faculty called manas (mind). Ahaṃkāra has to join that particular faculty called remembrance, smṛti (memory), and cognize: "Oh, I have seen it before."

If it is first time, it is called cognition. If it is second time onwards, it is called re-cognition. And the buddhi will confirm—yes, that confirmatory power is needed. That is how there is a complete picture of an object.

The Role of Consciousness

But even this antaḥkaraṇa, without that consciousness, is nothing—is as good as dead. So cidābhāsa, then antaḥkaraṇa, then all these sense organs and the outside world—and the whole composite picture that completes our concept of what we call sṛṣṭi (creation).

And we act and react. First time, if we do something, we do something—that is called action. Thereafter, whatever we do, it is called reaction.

So let us keep this in mind.

The Main Mantra

Now, the teacher Satyakāma Jābāla started in this 15th section:

"Ya eṣo'kṣiṇi puruṣo dṛśyate, eṣa ātmā iti hovāca, etat amṛtam"

And we have to add "etat" with every word—it is not given in the mūla. So:

"Etat amṛtam, etat abhayam, etat brahma iti"

The Teaching

This is the: He said that whatever the Puruṣa that is you see in the eye—and that is Brahman. And as we said, it is not what we see, the reflection, but it is the pure consciousness in the form of cidābhāsa at the moment.

But when we transcend these three bodies or pañcakośas (five sheaths), then that ābhāsa (reflection) will disappear. Pure sat-cit-ānanda will manifest.

The Example of Water and Ghee on the Eye

And then, how do we know? "Yad api asmin sarpirvā udakam vā siñcati, vartmani evāgacchati"—The eye has a very peculiar formation. If you pour water, it doesn't go inside. You pour water on a piece of cloth, it is absorbed. On a sponge, it is absorbed. Many things absorb. But the eye, just like the leaf of a lotus, it doesn't absorb.

Sarpi (Ghee)

Or it may be sarpi. Sarpi means ghee—that is clarified butter. So you pour clarified butter. You know, in Ayurvedic treatment, this is called purifying the sight. What they do? Pure ghee or clarified butter, very famous in India—rich people use it for preparing sweetmeats, etc.

By the way, "sweetmeat" is not meat made sweet! Sweetmeat means sweets. So these sweets are made out of pure ghee. It has a wonderful flavor for those who are accustomed.

The Quality of Ghee

And then it is a delicacy for normal people, because this is very costly. For normal people, it is something made with oil. And for abnormal people—that means people who are not even capable of buying things even that normal people can buy—for them, that oil is used again. So with each preparation, it becomes worse and worse and worse. So the quality difference will be there.

The Ayurvedic Practice

Anyway, here the teacher gives this example: If you pour a little bit of the ghee—and that is what I said, the Ayurvedic physicians, every day they will put ghee, and it doesn't irritate people. They say it has many medicinal effects. I don't know; I have not undergone it. But somebody who has undergone it has told me about it. It is very good. It cleanses the eyes.

The Analogy's Meaning

So if somebody pours either ghee or water on the eyelid, what happens? It just flows through the edges, either left side, right side. Or usually, you know, like when we are shedding tears, it could be going from the left corner or right corner. So like that, this thing just flows out. They do not affect.

Similarly, a person who has attained this, then he will not be affected by anything that happens in this world. And why is he not affected? We will talk about it very soon.

English Translation of the Mantra

So this is the English translation:

The Guru said: "The person that is seen in the eye, that is the Self. This is the immortal, the fearless. This is Brahman. That's why, if one drops melted butter or water in the eye, it flows away on both sides."

What "both sides" means is to the edges—gacchati means flows out.

Corroborating References

He is the seer behind the power of sight. This example of the person in the eye comes in Bṛhadāraṇyaka, not only in Chāndogya. And similar statements we have seen in the Kena Upaniṣad: "Śrotrasya śrotram, cakṣuṣaś cakṣuḥ"—so like that.

He is that which is behind, that pure consciousness without which neither the mind works nor the sense organs work.

How Consciousness Works Through the Mind

So how it works is: because the mind has the capacity to reflect that pure consciousness. And the first thing that comes out to life, that is called the cidābhāsa—reflection of the cit. The mind acts, as it were, like a mirror.

The Mirror Analogy

Just as a mirror reflects whatever object is standing—does a mirror really reflect whatever object is there in front? A mirror may be covered with dust; it will not do that. Or there may be no light; then also it is not possible. Certain conditions are to be fulfilled.

The Three Guṇas and Consciousness

So if a person's mind is covered with tamo guṇa, he would not be able to understand higher things. If it is covered with more of rajo guṇa, his mind will be extremely restless. Occasionally he gets a glimpse, but he also will not be able to have a complete picture.

But the more sāttvic a person becomes, the clearer the picture becomes, and he is able to perceive. That's why, as Śrī Rāmakṛṣṇa says, when a person practices spiritual disciplines, then he develops this sattva guṇa. He sheds, as it were, tamas and rajas—not 100%; one cannot shed 100% of any guṇa—but it is made to be the minimum. Tamas will be the minimum, rajas also will be the minimum.

The Unity of the Guṇas

Why? Because there are no three guṇas, really speaking. One guṇa manifesting in its purest form is called sattva. The same guṇa manifesting with some dust, etc., is rajo guṇa. And the same guṇa, when it is completely covered—most of it is almost 99% covered—is called tamo guṇa.

So it is not three guṇas; it is one guṇa. That's why I give the example of a dimmer switch. So the same light, same electricity—you can make it brighter, brightest, or dimmest. It all depends upon our mind.

The Mind as a Switch

Our mind is like that switch, and what is that light? That is called cit. But as reflected in the mind, it is called cidābhāsa. Ābhāsa means reflection.

So this is how we progress from more covering to less covering, until we remove almost all the covering and we perceive it. Then we go beyond all these coverings, beyond the guṇas. And that is when a person is entitled to be called guṇātītaḥ sa ucyate—such a person is called guṇātīta. He is called Brahmajñānī, nohir Brahman, etc., etc.

The Teaching in the Eighth Chapter

Now, this Akṣi Puruṣa—remember, in this very Chāndogya, in the 8th chapter, Prajāpati wanted to instruct both Indra and Virocana. The very first example he gave is Akṣi Puruṣa—that Puruṣa who is seen as reflected in the eyeball. He is the Ātman.

The First Stage: Physical Body as Ātman

So they looked into each other's eyeballs, and then they found out: "This is the Ātman." And to make sure, doubly sure, the teacher told them: "Bring a big pan of water and look at yourself. First, without dressing up, but second time, completely dressed up. What do you see?" "We see exactly ourselves." "That is the Ātman."

Virocana was completely mesmerized. He became very proud: "I am a Brahmajñānī, Ātmajñānī!" And he went away, never to return, and preached: "This body is Brahman. Body is God. Worship it, adorn it. Say that the best can be offered to it in the form of enjoyment."

The True Meaning

But that was the first stage. But what does it show? It shows, as we have discussed here, you must worship Brahman in your body, because this is called Brahma Purī. That is what the teacher really meant. Then the mind becomes purified. Then we also become moral, because once we come to know what we are, we have the same understanding about other people also.

If I am a utensil in which God is manifesting, it must be the same truth with regard to everybody else, whether it is a dog.

The Christian Saints' Example

That is why some advanced spiritual people, especially some Christian saints, when they see a dog, a hungry dog—so a devotee had given entire food prepared exclusively, hoping that Jesus Christ will come, because he saw Jesus Christ in that form. And Jesus Christ also confirms: "I came to you in the form of a hungry child, hungry woman, hungry widow, and a dog. And you gave me—I accepted what you gave me, and I am pleased with you. And I will grant you—my pleasure means you will go to heaven." Beautiful.

Indra's Journey Through the States

Coming back to the story, then Indra came back. And then this time, he gave him: "When you go to bed and you have a dream state, and whatever you see in that dream state, that is Brahman."

The Difference Between Waking and Dream

What is the difference? If we analyze properly, the experiences we have in the waking state and the experiences we have in the dream state—enormous difference you will see.

What is the difference? In the physical world, if you want to go, let us say, to Vārāṇasī from Calcutta, it takes a long time and it entails a lot of hardship. But if you are dreaming the same thing, nothing else is there. Just you think, and you are in Vārāṇasī. You think, you are in the temple of Lord Viśvanāth. You think, there is nobody, and you are wondering yourself that "How come I am the only person here? Nobody else is there. I can be with the Lord as long as I want," because you have done a lot of puṇya even to be able to dream like that.

But it also has a limitation. But if you go into the deep sleep state, then for unbroken several hours—of course counted from the waking state, but in deep sleep state, as if for eternity—you go beyond time, space, and causation in the state of deep sleep. So you experience advaita anubhava (non-dual experience). And that is why the Upaniṣads take these marvelous things which no modern scientist could ever analyze in this particular form.

Indra's Third Return

So Indra was satisfied. He had gone. On the way again, he did manana (reflection), and then he came back and said: "But you see, that doesn't solve my problem. If I am blind in the physical body, then I will dream also that I am blind in dream also. You cannot dream—now I am 80 years old, and I will dream I am 20 years old. It is not going to happen. If a person has lost a leg or a hand, we will see exactly ourselves in exactly the same manner."

So there is a severe limitation. Our thought is limited by our concept of ourselves as the physical body.

The Deep Sleep State

But in deep sleep, a person sleeps well. And Indra thought: "That must be the final teaching." But then again, he started cogitating, thinking deeply, and then he found out something marvelous. Then he found out that this person—he is like—it is like a dead state. "I don't know. I only know I was so happy upon waking up. But at that stage, even though I am experiencing that indescribable bliss, I am unable to consciously experience it. Unconsciously, yes. Consciously, no."

The Fourth State: Turīya

Then he says: "Yes, He who is behind these three states, and without whose presence these states are not possible—that is called..." That is not a state actually, but for the easiness of comprehension, it is called turīya avasthā (the fourth state). "And thou art that Ātman."

This time, Indra understood really, and that is what we have to understand here.

Reference to Kena Upaniṣad

So, referring to the Kena Upaniṣad, it is:

The ear of the ear
The mind of the mind
The tongue of the tongue
And also the life of the life
And the eye of the eye

And then there he says: all these things will not function unless there is that cit behind. And when it joins these organs mentioned—like the ear, etc.—then it becomes cidābhāsa. But it is pure cit without any relationship with the sense organs. And that is what we need to understand actually. And it is a marvelous topic. We will continue in our next class.

Closing Prayer